Is Hospitality Really Getting Better at Looking After Its People?

Hospitality is in a bit of a bind at the moment.It's on its knees.These are such difficult times for the industry.When the industry is struggling, people telephone us more than previously.We're on a mission to tell more people who we are and what we do.And we know that when people understand, they fall in love with us and that's what we need.We can't help everybody.We're not the welfare state, we're just a small to medium sized charity.But we celebrate the people that we do touch.

Do you think managers are prepared or equipped enough to deal with well being matters of their employees?

People are promoted because they're good in the kitchen, they're good at front house service, not because they're necessarily good at dealing with somebody who's got suicidal tendencies or bereavement or issues around domestic abuse.So we help people build their ongoing resilience.We're not a huge charity.We're not here to give people money month after month after month.We just can't do that.We're here to help people at that crisis point.

Talking Hospitality, Talking Hospitality.Moving the hospitality conversation forward.Talking hospital.

Welcome to another episode of Talking Hospitality.And today we are going to talk about whether hospitality is getting better at dealing with resilience or whether it's merely enabling it.This episode is sponsored by torq, a leading global professional hygiene brand.Torc helps hospitality businesses create easy to maintain comfortable washrooms that work better for businesses and and guests.When guests have a positive washroom experience, they're more likely to stay longer, spend more and leave with a better impression of your venue.I'm Timothy R. Andrews, your host and with me is my special guest, Mark Lewis, chief executive of Hospitality Action.How are you today?

I'm very well, Tim, thank you.How are you?

Very well.Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

So, a couple of things I want you to be aware of.To our listeners in 2025, I am going to read this.Hospitality Action awarded over 2,450 grants worth more than 1 million people, supporting 825 hospitality households and including 495 children.That's just last year.So.And since 2021, which is actually, I think when we first had Hospitality Action on, the applications have risen by over 118%.So.So we want to delve into why those figures are happening and what can people do about it.

Okay, great, great.

So let's go straight into it.Hospitality Action is supporting more people than ever.What do you think those numbers are telling you?About hospitality today, Tim, I think it's.

Telling me that hospitality is in a bit of a bind at the moment.It's on its knees.These are such difficult times for the industry.And you know what?We're a bellwether.So when the industry is struggling, people telephone us more than previously.So if the phone starts ringing off the hook, that tells us that people are having a really hard time.Having a hard time might mean that people are being laid off, it might mean that businesses are closing, it might mean that sites are closing, might be that people on Zeros contracts are getting fewer hours of work than they did previously, but for whatever reason, they start to contact us more and in greater numbers when times get harder.

And have you seen numbers like this previously?

We've always helped a lot of people through the year and we're always proud of the numbers of people that we do help.But obviously we want to build and help more people, and yet it's growing exponentially year on year.So as people become more aware of who we are and what we do, and as more employers tell their team members who we are and what we do, more people are getting in touch.And that's exactly how we want it.

So, in some respects, some of these numbers aren't necessarily.Obviously, they're reflective of what's going on in the industry, but they can also be reflected of people being more aware of what you're doing.And also your outreach has presumably increased as well.Right?

Yeah.So we're on a mission to tell more people who we are and what we do.And we know that when people understand who we are and what we do, they fall in love with us.And that's what we need.We need more people to fall in love with our charity for two reasons.Firstly, because when they do, they then find ways of supporting us and we need financial support.We get no government money, there's no levy on the industry for its industry charity.And then secondly, we want people to either come to us themselves or recommend to friends and colleagues that they should come to us when they hit crisis point.

So if we've got new listeners or viewers that haven't, say, listen to our episode seven, Jeremy, who are Hospitality Action in a nutshell.

So, in a nutshell, we are the industry charity for anyone who works in UK hospitality.We've been around for 190 years by next year, and in all that time, we've been helping people who hit crisis point, who hit a bump in the road.We are really the safety net for hospitality.You'll have spoken to people from other organizations like Springboard, which is the shop window for and UK hospitality, who represent the hospitality industry around Whitehall and Westminster.We're the safety net.So if somebody hits a bump in the road, hits a crisis point, were the people they should call to help them?

I mean, you guys were exceptional during the COVID outbreak and lockdown.I mean, that really could have made or break a new.But it made you back on everybody's radar and people have been supporting you ever since, haven't they?

Yeah.

Incredible.

I spoke to a couple of trustees in those first weeks or first days of lockdowns and the COVID epidemic and we talked about what it meant to hospitality action, what I response should be.And we had conversations about whether it was just too big for us.But of course that was never our will and our intent.So we said, do you know what?We'll focus on helping as many people as possible.We can't help everybody.We're not the welfare state, we're just a small to medium sized charity.But we celebrate the people that we do touch.But also we're cognizant of the fact that we're not the solution for everybody.But then that comes onto the fact that we're not just about grant support, we're also about signposting.And when people are in distress, sometimes what they need is pointing in the right direction and that can be as useful and valuable as financial support itself.

Yeah, absolutely.I was quite surprised when you said that you don't get any government support.And again, it's not a dig at the government, but it's like, so everything is supported by.Well, so you get your funding from people that raise it for you, is that right?

Yeah, we do.We get funding in three ways.Firstly, we have a paid for product called an employee assistance program which I'm sure your viewers or listeners will be aware of the concept of.So we sell that at a really low price point, not to make money, but just simply to support more people.And also as a trojan horse, because we want more people via the EAP to be aware of our brand so that privately they can come to us if they have an issue.Secondly, we have our own events and you've been to one or two, I think.So you know that we run a great event.We had something called Back to the Floor earlier this year where we had 120 hoteliers waiting at table that raised over £400,000 for us.We'll have another winter chef's dinner in October.So that's the things we do ourselves.And then the third way of making money is what we call third party fundraising.And that's when we ask the operators that we serve to lean in, to help us with some of the heavy lifting, to find a way of supporting us that could be choosing us as charity of the year.It could be putting a pound on the bill, it could be selling our invisible chips, it could be putting 50p on a cocktail, whatever, whatever.But just asking them, if you value having a charity for your people, can you find a way of supporting it?

So, a couple of things there.Although a lot of our audience or listeners will know what the employee assistance program is, there will be people that don't.Could you explain to them just for their benefit, what that is?

Yes.So an employee assistance program is a paid for product that an employer can buy into on behalf of their workforce, their team members.It buys people access to a whole world of guidance, advice, support, signposting in person or online counseling, access to legal advice and financial advice.It's about six, I think it's six pounds, 45 per life per year at the moment.So cheap at the price.We created it about 13, 14 years ago, firstly because we felt there wasn't an EAP that spoke specifically to all the idiosyncrasies of the hospitality workplace.And secondly, as I said, because we wanted it to be a Trojan horse.We want more people to know who we are.You know, you and I are lucky to go to amazing black tie dinners and fancy events and.And that's where we got a lot of traction.But actually it's the people at the sharp end of hospitality who we want to reach because they're the people who are likeliest to have financial problems and need our support.So we've now got about 190,000 individuals who have access to the AP through their employer, and that's 190,000 people who are seeing the HA brand and therefore privately are likely to reach out should they hit that bump in the road.

And you mentioned invisible chips.We did discuss this on episode seven, however, they're famous throughout the hospitality in parts of the uk.But we have listeners from abroad shout out to our listeners in China and Hong Kong, what are invisible chips?

So invisible chips don't exist.That's the first thing to say about them, that they're invisible clues in the name.They were a response to a conversation I had with some operators in 2020 who said, I would love to help you, but I don't feel comfortable putting a pound on the bill, somebody has £120 lunch, they've had a great time.The bill comes and there's an extra couple of quid on it for a charity they'd never heard of and didn't ask to support.So a lot of operators didn't want to evolve their charitable work to their customers or guests.So we came up with this idea of invisible chips.The idea of it is that they're entirely discretionary.So the invisible chips sit on the menu connected to the EPOS system.So you order them if you want, you don't, if you don't.They're 0% fat, 100% charity, and all the money comes to us if you choose to buy them.But that's the point, that it's discretionary.So nobody feels forced into or strong armed into making a donation to a charity they didn't ask to support.

I think the nice thing about them as well is because I've gone to local pubs or regional pubs and it's on the menu and it's way that you can see that they're contributing without making a huge deal or Farrar about it.And I like that a lot.

Yeah, exactly.

When you're reading it and you go invisible chips, it catches your eye.It's a good little thing.

It does.And I think in 2020 and 2021 in particular, when people were a little bit nervous about going back into public places, particularly people who've been shielding through lockdowns, it was a nice way to start a conversation at the table.It was a way for waiters to say, you know, let's have a chat about where hospitality is.And, you know, are you aware of how tough things have been?So we found that it created conversations at table that I think were very rewarding for the hospitality staff.

Yeah, you've touched on it already.You talked about sort of some of the issues going on.And hospitality as an industry does do a lot of talking about well being.I mean, we've covered a lot here ourselves as talking hospitality.It's a matter that's close to my heart.I know it's a matter that's close to your heart.How long have you been working for Hospitality Action?Actually, how long have you been in hospitality?

So I was editor and then publisher of the case magazine for 14 years, but then I was, for 10 or 11 of those years I was a trustee of HJ.So it's in my blood.I love Hospitality Action.I've always loved what it does.So I've been around the industry probably 25 years and around the charity for knocking on 20.

So within that, do you think hospitality's got better at dealing with well being or.It's about the same.It's got worse, I think.

Definitely it's got better.Definitely it's got better.And we all know that there were some pretty Neanderthal practices that went on back in the day.We know all the stories about chef's knives and people getting burnt and thrown in cold storage and so on.People work hard, they still do, you know, split shifts, long hours.So that's still the case.But I think industry is far more enlightened than it used to be.We still hear of pockets of bad practice and you know, we're the guys who.We know where the bodies are buried.We get the calls from people saying I'm really struggling at my business because I feel I'm being overworked and underinvested in.So we hear the bad stories but there are less of them than they used to be, I think.

So do you if somebody calls you, obviously you deal with it anonymously.But have you ever had to address it to an employer?You've had a repeated employer where this bad practice is going?

No, that's not our place.Unless they have a whistleblowing scheme in place which they can opt into as part of that eap.So if they choose to, there's still permissions and GDPR issues and all sorts of things as absolutely there should be that we would work through.But yeah, if there's a whistleblowing practice in place, then we would report back anonymously that there's been an issue in this or that department.But as I said, that's with the permission of the employee employer who's actually bought into that scheme.

Yeah, it matters, doesn't it?

Yeah.

One of the things that often comes up, particularly after 202021 managers were promoted into positions that they weren't ready for and obviously there's been a lot of work since and it has got better.But do you think managers are prepared or equipped enough to deal with, well, being matters of their employees or even their own selves?

Yeah, I think often not people are promoted because they're good in the kitchen, they're good at front house service, that they're good at their craft skill or their core job, not because they're necessarily good at dealing with somebody who's got suicidal tendencies or bereavement or, or issues around domestic abuse.So we talk about people becoming accidental counselors and that's a phrase we use more and more, and there's no reason why you should be any better at that as you become slightly higher up the chain of command.But that's where something like an EAP or a charity comes in, because you can outsource that sort of issue to us.We don't expect everyone in the world to be able to deal with really thorny mental health issues.But I think what employers do should need to do is give access to all of their managers, to somebody who can help them, and that's what we do for the industry.

So do you encourage.I presume you encourage employers to be proactive in that, or how do you get an employer to cross that line and go, right, here's the support, this is the support you need, here's the training that you need, or how does that work from a hospitality action point of view?

Yeah, it's a good question.I mean, normally the calls we get are from the individual themselves.So 9, 10 of the calls we get are from the individual.I think it's about promoting what we do.It's about making people aware that there is support for the manager as well as the managed.So we're not just helping the person with the issue, we're helping the person who's helping the person with the issue.It's that whole who watches the watchman thing.So it's just about getting that message out there, you know, this afternoon will help.And we do that by a million different ways.We're always tub thumping, always shouting loudly about what we do and we want people to understand the diversity of what we offer, because it's.People have all sorts of misconceptions about what HA is and isn't, but we help people across the industry and that's hospitality and food service as well, and we help them for all the issues that might confront them and we help their managers as well.So that's the message we just keep on tub thumping about.

Which is exactly what you write at the beginning was talking about safety net.Right.So you're.You're there to catch people as they're for.

Yeah.

Are you finding that a majority of the people that are using your service, are they managers, senior management, are they entry level?Is it like literally really is across the board?Yeah.

I mean, if we go back to the.I think the AP is best set to one side because that's a different matter.That's where people are paying to get access to management support.But I think in terms of the bread and butter of what we do, which is grant giving, it tends to be people at the sharp end, because those are the people who are struggling most inevitably, you know, they probably don't have a car or a mortgage, they don't have savings, they're on lower income, they're having to travel further to get to work and spend more money on public transport.So it tends to be the kitchen porter and the room attendant and the receptionist who gets in touch rather than the middle senior level manager because they have other ways of getting support.But all comers come to us.We never name names, of course, but sometimes quite eminent people from across the industry will get in touch and say, do you know what, I've just hit a brick wall.I didn't expect it, but I have and we'll help all comers.

Okay, so we do a lot of talking about resilience.We've talked about it as well in the workplace and, you know, there has been a lot of work in the public space about mental health and dealing with some of the issues in hospitality.But we know there are some, like you said, some pockets that are still very old school, still need change, still haven't grasped the fact that we're practical.40 Hours is perfectly reasonable for a shift or if not for a shift, for a week.So the question I'm asking ourselves, because we've had so many conversations and sometimes the message doesn't seem to be getting through.Are we as an industry saying, yeah, we're getting better at dealing with resilience, or are we in reality saying that we are, but we're, we're not actually doing as effectively as we'd like?The reason why I ask that is because obviously the numbers are going up and up and up.Have you got any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, again, I think things are better than they were, far better than they were.I think people are realizing that they have a duty of care.Employers have a duty of care to their team members.So there's no doubt that people are acting in a far more enlightened way than they used to.But I think sometimes reality kicks in.You know, it's very difficult if you're a marginal business and you're suddenly having to keep people send chefs home after they've done their 37 and a half hours a week.Well, you're probably going to become sub marginal pretty quickly.So I think that sometimes reality bites.And, you know, if you speak to chefs, restaurateurs in London and elsewhere, they would say, we need to make things work.And, you know, paying people, asking for that little bit more from People, unfortunately, is a necessity, otherwise businesses close and then nobody has any role at all.

And do you think we've actually talked about, on another episode about shortages of staff and what that might actually mean in terms of better ways of, of bringing people in?Do you think sometimes the short, the perceived or reality of shortage of staff has affected the well being of other workers as well?

Yeah, I think what we've seen in the last few years is people having to take the slack for people who aren't replaced.So if there is staff attrition, that work still needs to be done.The dishes still need to go out from the past, rooms still need to be cleaned.So what we've heard from a lot of people, particularly a couple of years ago or three years ago, there was a real spike of people getting in touch saying, my mental health is shot because I'm doing what I've always done.I've still got to do a day's work and I'm paying for that day's work.But now, because they're not replaced, Joe Bloggs, who used to do, used to work by my shoulder, I'm now doing some of Joe's work as well.And I think that was a real problem.We hear less of that now.So perhaps things are evening out.But I think there's still, there's a lot of that goes on.But as I said, you know, if you speak to employers, they might say to you, that's the reality of trying to run a business which is still profitable.

There's a lot of news that's quite negative about industry, but I feel very positive about our industry and I know you do too.What would you say some of those improvements are?What's caused the improvements?Investments within our industry.Why are people dealing with well being much better than they were before?

I think the world has changed.I think we all talk about wellbeing far more than we used to be.Front up about things like, for example, mental health, which never would have been spoken about 30 years ago.You just suck it up and crack on and don't talk about feeling wobbly.So I think that's a really a good, encouraging development.And that's globally, I think, so that's not just UK based or industry based.But I think the industry itself is realizing that for two reasons.Firstly, it's the right thing to do.They want to look after their staff members because it's the right thing to do.And I think people realize that more than previously.But also if you want to hold on to good people, you've got to look after them.You know, people will move elsewhere and it's not always money by any means that makes people move to another job.It could just be that they, they feel that they're going to be better looked after somewhere else and they can see over the fence that somebody else is having a happier time and working in a far more engaged place.So that's why they might move.So I think for that reason too, it's so important to protect people's well being and make them feel that you're looking out for them.

And I think it's important to show that people have choice.Now.It's easy to say in a city or like London where there is a lot of choice where you can work, but even in more rural places there are opportunities to work for most people.I realize there's going to be exceptions.There's exceptions to every rule.And I've always thought if that employer is not treating you right, go across the road and go to one that does.

Yeah, totally, totally.Yeah.I think people will vote with their feet if they feel they're not being looked after and that their well being is, is not being prioritized.It can be tough if you work in a, let's say you work in a country house hotel, which is one of just a few employers in a small village in a remote area.If that hotel closes, you may not have somewhere else to go.And we have a lot of people contacting us saying I literally can't find work and they can't easily move.Who was it?I forget the name of the.It was Norman Tebbutt, wasn't it?He said, get on your bike to find work.But actually if you've got kids in school and you've got a life and you've put routes down, you can't easily move on.So a lot of people do come to us saying, I've lost my job and there's nothing else around here.So that can be an issue as well.

So how do you support those people?Because that's quite an interesting fact.And we also know there's a lot of people that some businesses that are closing down, two or three hospitality businesses, where I think five or six hospitality businesses a week are closing.Obviously owners are going to come to you as well.What sort of advice or where do you point people to?So they come here and they feel, I've lost a business.So I know that sense of loss and identity loss that you can have, which really is effective and people get it when they're made redundant or they lose their jobs, often wrongly.One might say, where do you point people?So come here.They're a point of desperation.What happens next?

So if I talk you through how we help people, the first step is a phone call and a conversation with one of our caseworkers who just get a sense of what the wider context is.People come to us for all sorts of specific reasons, but when you unpick the wider context, you then begin to understand that perhaps you can help in a more meaningful way than was immediately apparent.I'll give one example you probably see in a video that we show at events of an amazing young woman called Tatiana, who used to work at Hawksmoor.She had malaria and sepsis, which meant that she was put into into an induced coma.And when she was taken out of the coma, they'd had to amputate her arms and her legs.So she's amazing and she's doing brilliantly.We helped her by buying her state of the art prosthetic legs, but when she contacted us, she spoke to my colleague Ife and said, can you help me with a new dishwasher, please?So it was only when if A started to unpick the wider story that we then appreciated that our help could be far more profound than just some white goods for the kitchen.So that's the first thing.We take the call, we charge everybody.So if somebody phones us and they are a single parent at imminent risk of eviction, or if they've had a difficult or perhaps eternal diagnosis, or if they have a funeral they can't pay for in the coming days, then that's a P1 priority and we would help them within 12 to 24 hours.And then we have P2 and P3 and these are people we come back to when we can, but we never get complaints from people.They understand that you have to start with the most acute need.So that's how it starts.People tend to get financial support from us, which is either an injection of cash, if what they need is the ability to clear some deaths and arrears, or pay the landlord and just stay in accommodation with the roof over their heads.Or they might, like Tatiana, need prosthetic limbs, or somebody might need a wheelchair or a funeral paid for.Somebody who's the victim of domestic abuse might need help with being airlifted out from that flashpoint and put somewhere else in accommodation that we can help fund.So that's the first way.But then the other thing we now do is we help people build their ongoing resilience we're not a huge charity, we can't create annuities.We're not here to give people money month after month after month.We just can't do that.We're here to help people at that flashpoint, at that crisis point.But what we then do is we have a team of two people who will take somebody to one side and say, okay, let's have a look at what you might be eligible for from the welfare state.So in 2024 there were 23 billion pounds of welfare benefits unclaimed from the state.23 Billion pounds.It's an eye watering amount.So we're in our own small way helping people get their little pocket of that, which is all about creating longer term resilience.People can rebuild their lives as long as they have ideally a job, but certainly, you know, some sort of income.If people are solvent, they have cash, they can pay for food on the table, they can pay for the rent and keep a roof over their heads, they can start to rebuild.So that's what we do.It's either grant giving or, and, or it's support with getting access to the welfare benefits for their entire plan is.

Giving them fish, but also some people teaching them how to fish.Right.

In some respects, exactly that.Yeah, yeah.

In 2025, just to give us some indication of just how much help Hospitality Action gave.You gave over half a million pounds worth of, of accessing benefits to people last year.I mean that is pretty.Yeah.

And that's something we're really proud of and that will grow and grow.So we were at a nascent stage of building this new service line, this welfare benefits advocacy work that we do that's growing and growing.Now we brought in another member of the team so that those numbers will grow and grow and we hope that with that and the grant giving we will get to knocking on £2 million of financial impact this year.That's the ambition.If you think about it.A lot of people who work in hospitality don't have English as their, as their first language.They, a lot of chefs are dyslexic so they struggle with application forms at best.The welfare state is opaque, so it's hard to get what's yours.So yeah, we're unlocking more and more money and we're really proud of that because as I said, it gives people that longer term resilience.

And I think that's important to point out is that like you say, it's not just a cash injection that you're giving to people, but you are actually enabling people to crack on and that means that there is help out there they just need to be aware of.And that's one of the things you're enabling.

We talk about keeping people happy, healthy and productive, but also we recognize that if life changes and you have a life changing diagnosis, you won't necessarily be productive any longer.You move into a different phase of your life and then we help in different ways.You know, that's about making people comfortable if they've had a difficult diagnosis or supporting people through their retirement as we do with our Golden Friends scheme.

So let's go to the future.Five years time.What would you like hospitality to look like?

Hospitality.

Hospitality.In the context of the well being and the support that we're giving, how would you like like our employers to.

Be, I think on the road and I think we just need more people to join the people on that road already.We need everybody to move along this road of well being, recognizing that people need support, being empathetic, being understanding.Life is difficult and more so than ever at the moment with all that's going on globally.So if you look at that sort of, that geopolitical overlay that we're all affected by, we just need to look after the people that we employ and of course if we do so, they will look after customers and guests far better.So I think that's the journey we're on and I think in five years time I'd like to think that the laggards are fewer and fewer.

I absolutely agree.And just sort of in, in closing really, if somebody's listening and they're in trouble, you've got quite a number of stories of people that you've helped and obviously you've just shared one already.But I was wondering if you've got another one that.Because obviously not everyone's going to get malaria and sepsis, but maybe on a more closer to home experience, is there a story you could share of success that you've helped or helped direct somebody?He's going to have one of our lovely Boda drinks supplied by Boda Rosen Cardamon.Thank you very much.

Yes.I'll give you a couple of examples just from the last week or so.So early this week a chef got in touch who was divorced, shared access to a child but was living in their car.So A, living in a car is not sustainable, it's not a long term option and B, this person was unable to have their, their daughter stay.So we were able to make a faster, speedy, same day payment to get this person into accommodation, pay a few months rent, put a deposit down and just give them a chance to start rebuilding their life and their family life.There's one example, another example, last week, somebody got in touch who didn't have the money to pay for their son's funeral.And as well as dealing with the obvious bereavement issues, they were also dealing with that terrible practical worry of not being able to pay the undertakers.So, again, we were able to step in and pay that immediately and just take at least that one burden off.

Their minds, and that's huge.So if you resonate with any of the stories that's been discussed or some of the issues that being raised, where could they go?

It all starts with a trip to our website.It's hospitalityaction.org uk.You'll find an email, you'll find a WhatsApp line, you'll find the telephone number to call.Call.Just give us a call.Our case managers are fantastic.I'm so proud of our case managers.They never judge people.It's a very difficult thing to do, to reach out to a charity and people don't do it lightly.It's often the last resort.But we make sure that we treat people with dignity and respect.We never judge them, whatever issues they're going through.And that's where it'll begin.That's where the magic happens.

Okay.And also we will have links below in the episode description.Mark Lewis, thank you very much for joining us today.It's been a real pleasure.

Thank you very much for having me.

I enjoy for you and your team and all the hard work they do, because I know people whose lives.It's made a difference too.And I want to say, long may it continue.I don't want it to, for obvious reasons, but long may it continue.

Thank you.Yeah, we'd love to be obsolete, but sadly, I don't think we will be for a long time to come.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Talking hospitality.Talking hospitality.Moving the hospitality.Conversation forward.Talking hospitality.