In The Age Of Tech, Can Hospitality Stay Human?

Tracey Rashid00:00:00

The biggest shift you've seen in hospitality is, you know, the kind of old school things that the customer comes first, you make sure they're happy. But actually the kind of newer school thinking like virgin companies like that is actually that the employee comes first.If you treat them right, they will stay. It is as simple as that.

Joe McDonnell00:00:18

I think that there's a scope for hospitality to really step up into the breach and fill that void that I can really see coming over the next 10, 15, 20 years.

Timothy R Andrews00:00:28

A lot of people my age are afraid of something, this technology, but I was. I cannot be that person. I cannot be afraid of what is already happening. And I've got a choice. I think you make a choice.Do I get left behind or do I join in? But then that's the choice you make. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Talking Hospitality. Yes, we are back. And I.It's Timothy R. Andrews and I am back with the crew Tracy Rashid and Joe McDonald. Yay.

Joe McDonnell00:01:10

Hello.

Tracey Rashid00:01:11

Hi. We're back.

Timothy R Andrews00:01:13

So what are we going to be talking about today? Well, today is a little bit special.

Joe McDonnell00:01:17

Is we are under the command of producer Paul Guidance. Guidance.

Tracey Rashid00:01:22

Guidance, I think is better. Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews00:01:25

Correct. Command of Paul Cook, who is a storytelling guru and events hero, who has actually been on the show before.He talked about Kilimanjaro and the future of events. And we'll do a link below so you can hear those.And so we have the honor of Paul Cook actually interviewing us and asking some questions about those particular areas and testing our knowledge. So are you ready, listeners? We. We do a lot of the interviewing, but how we going to respond? This one's for you.What does a strong hospitality culture look like?I think first of all, culture has to be defined, so there needs to be some form of a definition of what you're trying to achieve and why people work there. If you haven't got that, it's just a kind of. It's a throwaway. You're just here to work and do something.Whereas a culture gives a reason why to your staff or your employees get up in the morning and you have to define that and it has to be written out and then it has to be managed or delivered by the leaders.So we can all write something very lovely saying we're all going to treat each other with respect, we're going to open doors to each other all the time and we're going to smile when we see each other through any of those or it's not reinforced, it's meaningless.So a culture has to run from having it written down, because people need to be able to see where it's coming from all the way through to actually the action. And you can actually. I feel like you can always understand a culture very quickly of a. Of a place.So, like, if you go in particular in hospitality, you know if it's a happy or not very happy place. Because there's a feeling, isn't it?

Joe McDonnell00:02:54

Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews00:02:55

As a customer. Yeah. Yeah. But also when you work there as well, if you're about to be employed, you can tell by interviews.A lot of the time, you know, you just have to look around if you are being interviewed, by the way, in hospitality, have a look at what the other staff are doing. It's a good sign as to what the culture is. So my answer is it needs to be defined and then it's got to be lived and filtered down.

Tracey Rashid00:03:13

It's a tough one, though, culture, isn't it? It's not like with technology. Whereas ABCD is a very clear line of using can be so misinterpreted, should I say?So it has to be lived and breathed through every element of an organization. So, you know, the leaders need to show it.It needs to be in the vision, it needs to be in the mission, needs to be in the objectives, team level, personal level. Otherwise it gets squashed quite easily, I think.

Joe McDonnell00:03:36

Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews00:03:37

How do the best companies deal with friction or department?

Joe McDonnell00:03:41

There's always going to be friction, Right. Like you want a bit of friction. Like friction. Do you define it as conflict or do you define it as like interdepartmental tension?Because there's two different things that, like friction can be.We've had there's been a disagreement or there's a competing interests and that can be handled in a poor way in terms of blame culture or bullying or whatever. That's. You can't say that's not friction under the friction umbrella.But then there's like the good kind of friction, which is like, I'm protecting this corner of the business, I'm responsible for this part of the P and L. You're in a different department, you're on the same tier level as me. You're also a department head, let's say, but you're responsible for an entirely different part of the business.I'm going to fight tooth and nail to protect my side of the business when necessary, and you need to do the same. That's what you're getting paid for. Right.But when those priorities are sometimes overlapping, let's say an easy example would be competing for Shared resources.Let's say you've got a departmental budget that sits for improvement, and then there's an overall global budget that can also be allocated to different departments, whatever.If you're thinking, I'd love to secure that extra resource for my department, and someone else thinking, no, no, I want that for my department, then there's actually an opportunity there. And like coming back to.Not to take it back to culture, but there's an opportunity there if your culture allows for it to have healthy discourse around disagreement and competing interests, where you can start to come across the table and see, you know, the other person's point of view. As a guest we've had on recently said, finding the common ground, then that can be a really healthy thing. So I think you kind of defect.For me, it depends how you define friction.But if you've got a good, healthy organization with good principles where people understand how to communicate properly, I think it can be a real force for good. But if it's not utilized in the right way, if it's not channeled in the right way, it can be just as destructive.

Timothy R Andrews00:05:25

I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head by talking about the communication. Because I've worked in an environment where different departments did not speak to each other. There's no trust.They looked after their little silos, and that was really bad for the organization. So I ended up going to the different organizations myself and kind of bridging that gap.And when I'd get a no for a request, I was like, just walk me. Not an aggressive way where a lot of people took rejection personally on that. I just was like, tell me why you've rejected this.I don't know why you've rejected. To explain to me, I'll tell you what my perspective is. You tell me what your perspective is and then we'll see what's missing.Because maybe they've rejected it because I haven't filled in something, or perhaps I've requested something, or perhaps they've got a budget I don't know about.And it really worked quite quickly to break down the different departments because suddenly other departments are talking to each other because it just took one person to start talking to different departments. So I totally agree. Communication is absolutely key. And you've got to have communication where you don't feel like there's a barb at the end of it.

Joe McDonnell00:06:29

Sure.

Tracey Rashid00:06:29

And you have to feel free to communicate as well. That's the thing that you're not going to get chastised or, you know, told off or put down. So that freedom.And again, it does come back to culture again, of knowing that you can say your piece without reprimand.

Timothy R Andrews00:06:42

Absolutely. How do you keep up to date with technology advances?

Tracey Rashid00:06:45

Yeah, I think, well, you have to be on the ball. You have to be part of different memberships and subscriptions and keeping your ear to the ground.There's so many fabulous hospitality outputs and information, like talking hospitality, for example, and it just keeps you up to date with what's going on. You can do a lot of your own research, but I think you have to keep on top of what everyone's talking about. You know, there's so many changes. Always.Technology will never stay the same from, you know, when we were young, to be fair.So the best thing to do is obviously get out there, sign up to things, make sure you're attending expos and all those wonderful services that you can go to where you can speak to other people who are putting out the tip and then they can update you and you can find out whether it's suitable for your business. There's so many independents, which I love, like people that do card machines, for example.And it doesn't have to be big organizations, but it's lots of people that will approach you and say, are you aware of X, Y, Z? Can I come in? Can I give you a demo? So even if you're not finding it for yourself, you're not kind of seeking it.You can be sought out as well, but it's best to have a little bit of both because you want to keep on top of the game, because the kind of slicker you are of your tech, the more money you can save. And I think people are afraid. I can't talk tech about AI, but AI is just another form of tech, let's face it. But it's not going to replace people.It's just going to make our processes, our operations, slicker. Slicker means more cost effective. Cost effective means increase profit lines.So it's always best to stay on top and just make yourself available to what's there and utilize it as much as possible.

Joe McDonnell00:08:14

So I have a different approach to staying in front of technology, and I wish my approach was more like Tracy's, but it isn't. Because I'm a classic late adopter of technology like I really am. Maybe I should.And I love technology and I love utilizing it, and there's nothing I enjoy more than re optimizing something that you've created.I think it's such a wonderful feeling that you get and Technology, software especially, is such an efficient way of delivering that you don't have to build things anymore. You just have to be able to tap into the thing that somebody else has built. Right.But I'm such a classic late adopter, and I recognize that about myself. I only got Instagram five years ago, and that's because I knew I had to do it for work and the industry and everything else. I didn't want it.And I'm saying with other parts of software, because I recognize I'm not going to be the first person to go, oh, my God, look at this new bit of kit that can do this. Look at this new piece of software that do this. I make sure I surround myself with people who are super enthusiastic about that.And I've got friends as well who are working those industries. And I make a point of it when I see them. I say, what do I need to know? Because they'll keep me abreast of it.And when you speak to reps Tracer to your point, when you're speaking to people at expos and stuff, it's important to have those conversations. But I'm really candid with people when I speak to them, and I say, this isn't really my bag, you know, I'm a people person. You know, I create.I like doing big stuff. I don't really love this side of it. So convince me. Often when you approach people with that openness and that attitude and you say, convince me.I don't want to know how it works. They'll just come at you with what. What they should really do, which is what it can do for me. And I find that cuts out a lot of the noise.I find I've got much more thresh and much more bandwidth to actually take in the information than I need. Yeah. And that's my. I wish I could be more like Tracy, but I'm. But I'm not. That does work for me, Joe.

Timothy R Andrews00:09:54

Can I ask you why then you're wearing smart glasses?

Joe McDonnell00:09:56

Because they were. Same reason I got an Apple watch. These were free with my work. I was like, why wouldn't I be able to take photos? Enough.

Timothy R Andrews00:10:03

Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. I think it depends. Like, I was very quick when I came out, I was like, very quick to start using it. I don't think I'm the fastest on it, but I.One of the things I was like, I recognized that this is going to be a big change, so I adopted it. Really. I was like, you know, the genie's out the bottle, the Cat is out the bag. All those cliches. I need to jump on this.And I didn't want to be somebody of a certain age that was left behind. And there are people, and I'm a bit older than both of you, but like a lot of people my age are afraid of some of this technology.

Joe McDonnell00:10:37

Who are my age.

Timothy R Andrews00:10:38

Yeah. Right. And so, but I was. I cannot be that person. I cannot be afraid of what is already happening. And I've got a choice.And so I've really embraced it quite a lot. I'm still learning stuff, but I'm enjoying that whole process of learning. I love it when I learn a new prompt or. I'm speaking to Joe earlier today.Now I've got agentic AI I'm using. So I've got agents starting to do things now, different things. I'm loving that on my workflow.

Joe McDonnell00:11:01

So you're telling me we weren't actually having a conversation? I was just talking to your agent?

Timothy R Andrews00:11:05

Yes.

Tracey Rashid00:11:07

I thought you were sounding clever and funny.

Timothy R Andrews00:11:09

I'm not actually here, Joe. This is not me. And who can blame me? I'm in a yacht.So it seems to be right now, because of the very nature of technology moving right now, it's a very personal thing.I don't know if that's because people are so used to social media and everybody's become a lot more individualistic, but I feel like this is where the future of technology is going. Like, even if you look at our, you know, our audio partners, well, audio people that we're working with, Yamaha right now, you know, that whole.They work with businesses directly and for their individual needs rather than a whole kind of here's a package fits all and that seems to be the way everything is going. I think you make a choice, do I get left behind or do I join in? But then that's the choice you make.

Tracey Rashid00:11:56

I think it's your generation as well.It's definitely your generation because end of generation X bringing a generation Y, then there's like a 10 year gap or 10 year bracket that the researchers showed that we were involved in analog all the way through to now. You know, we were vinyl, then cassette, then cd, then Blu ray. All these things that we've had to deal with, we've had to keep.I mean, a lot of times I bought the same song on different platforms. It's ridiculous. But we've had to deal with all those changes. So that's. It's quite normal for that generation.But then you've got either end that expect everything to be AI generated anyway, because that's what you do. And on the other end, like our parents are like, like you say, a bit afraid. That's that fear to adopt.I think again, going back to culture, if you've got the right culture, the right training practices, you can implement things that quite seem quite difficult quite easily because you've got a good structure in place to break it down and make people feel comfortable using tech.

Timothy R Andrews00:12:50

How is the hospitality industry changing right now and what do you see as the future possibilities of this industry?

Joe McDonnell00:12:57

It's actually so funny, like I genuinely still believe, like I think that we are one of the most, from a tech framework, I think one of the most insulated industries when it comes to sort of jobs being threatened.And actually the optimist in me wants to think as people get more and more and more separated in terms of the tech allowing them to interact without not interact with people. Micro example here, the supermarket cashier, that is no longer non existent. Right.And as we more and more frequent in different areas, driverless taxis, different areas of our lives become less human oriented and less, there's less interaction baked into those normal things that we do every day.I think that there's a scope for hospitality to really step up into the breach and fill that void that I can really see coming over the next 10, 15, 20 years.And I do, the optimist in me really thinks that there's a huge opportunity for people to step and I don't know what that looks like necessarily, but for people to think, you know what, we are uniquely positioned to deliver an interpersonal experience to our guests that is, that is inherently baked in. You know, there's plenty of good restaurants, good hotels, good event spaces that do this already. I don't think they're going anywhere.I also don't think that, you know, we've seen fast food move. If you look at McDonald's, you look at the big ones where, you know, you don't even need to talk to a person anymore.It's the same thing with ordering. No doubt they're going to continue to succeed and continue to squeeze margins and that's their model.But I do think that there is a higher spend per head opportunity for places that are able to innovate and able to do cool stuff, that there'll be a much more appetite for that, pardon the pun, but there'll be much more appetite for that coming up from a tech space. So I think that's a big one to look at.

Timothy R Andrews00:14:38

I think you're right. I mean if you look at leisure now, a lot of that is about experience. You know, the younger generations are actually. It's not true anymore.I don't like, really like generalizing about generations. There are some differences, obviously, but across the board, actually, people are looking for more value from their buck. What does that mean?I go away and I remember stuff and I can't remember who, which. Who it was. It was a guest that said nobody remembers they can spend a lot of money on. I think it was John Herity.So you go in and you say, right, I had a good meal. When I leave the next time, might not remember the meal, but I will remember the service, whether it's good or bad.And I think that is, again, that's part of the experience. So I like yourself. I'm a bit of an optimist when it comes to hospitality long term because I think people still want to have that interaction.And if you look at some of the uber luxury labels like Four Seasons, Carlton, Ritz, Jumeirah, all of those, they are pushing that customer service forward. So from the moment you arrive to how you're greeted, all the way through to your room, through to the experience you have.So if you've been there before, they know what your favorite drinks are, what to expect on arrival, all of those. Right. That is what people are going to spend money on for sure.If you go to a fast food burger chain, well, we're already pressing screens anyway, so how far off is it before we get a beef patty with a robot do it. Do we care? No, because if we want a cheeseburger, we know what cheeseburger we want to order and we're just going to get it and off we go to.

Joe McDonnell00:16:18

Yeah, people are buying a commodity, they're not buying an experience in that sense. And people accept that. And good hospitality professionals know where your line is. Right. Like, I love beer, I'm an avid beer drinker, right. Some.I love IPAs, I love all the weird ones. I'll take drink saisons, I'll seek out these weird beers. Sometimes I just want a lager. I don't want an experience, I just want a lager.

Timothy R Andrews00:16:38

That's right.

Joe McDonnell00:16:39

And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But knowing who you are, are you the lager? Are the ipa, Are you the saison? Are you the sour? That's. Yeah.And there's opportunity there, knowing who you are, moving forward. Because we are changing very quickly.

Timothy R Andrews00:16:50

I mean, you look at hospitality, jobs, uk, the job board. Right, It's a job board. There are other job boards in the market, but what they do really successfully is get the events in.They get events where they get in front of people, they do conversations that matter to people. They have, it's the experience of that.So people, they know that they are understood not as a customer, but by people that are in the industry, talking about the industry and are hitting the key points. That's an experience, that's where the value comes in as well as you being a very good job.

Tracey Rashid00:17:20

I think taking it a little bit a step back from the experience, because the biggest shift you've seen in hospitality is, you know, the kind of old school thinking was that customer comes first. And it makes sense when you think of it that they come first, you make sure they're happy.But actually the kind of newer school thinking like Virginia companies like that is actually that the employee comes first, the staff member comes first, untoward staff member and they're out with your public and you're an event or something, they're going to have the worst experience, your customer is going to be awful.But actually, if you're making the efforts to look after your team and this all comes back to retention, the issues we've had in hospitality, keeping good, good, good, if you treat them right, they will stay. It is as simple as that. There's no need for them to move around.So I think, I hope that the future is focusing a lot more on employees and moving them through the industry and showing them all the different wonderful positions there are to be had in hospitality that isn't just the basic ones that we think of. And I think we'll keep people a lot better. Which then means the experience of our guests are better as well.

Timothy R Andrews00:18:23

100%.

Joe McDonnell00:18:23

That's very good.

Timothy R Andrews00:18:25

Listen, everybody. Thank you so much. I hope this has been a different one for our listeners and viewers. I hope you've enjoyed it.If there's anything that you've heard and you disagree with or you agree with, please write to us. Either send us comments on our socials or email us. Hey@talkinghospitality.com that's h e yalkinghospitality.com or go.

Joe McDonnell00:18:46

To our website, which is talkinghospitality.com and you can join the mailing list on there. You can click on our socials, you can see past episodes with all of us.

Timothy R Andrews00:18:57

And it's goodbye from Timothy, it's goodbye.

Tracey Rashid00:18:59

From Joe, and it's Good boy from Tracey.

Joe McDonnell00:19:02

Thanks for listening, everybody and we'll see you next time.

Tracey Rashid00:19:05

Thank you to our team, Reece and Paul for helping us out today.