How Do You Make Learning Accessible?

How do you make most of that learning available at point of need on the job? If you go through a course, you're not going to remember most of it anyway.How do I do less of trying to store all that knowledge in your head, which is impossible, and then hope you can retain it all? So how do I give you the minimum in order to set you going?Learning should be designed for in order to help the person ultimately be better at their job and perform at the highest level they can.

When I think about learning, there's the kind like when you learn how to speak and then there's the learning like the stuff that you do in your driving tests.

All of those things are in the heads of great people. It is not all about technology. I think it's also about culture.When leadership and line managers are actively involved in the learning process, their teams are too.

The kind of KPIs there we are very much a solution based podcast. And I'm sure we've got listeners out there thinking is this really for me? You know, we're okay with the learning that we have.You know, we have staff, our attention's not too bad. KPIs are one thing.

The voices, you know,.

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Joe on the show, from front of house to chefs on the line, every voice can shape the future each time.

Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Great to be here. So to have you.After creating a successful company mainly selling elearning content but not able to get through one course, I just thought there had to be a better way to learn. Right.You know, the motivation was how do we create something that people choose to learn from or want to learn from from both the platform side, but also kind of figuring out some of the content piece as well.So that was the, that was the initial drive and I think as it evolved it also became about how do you not just drive value to the learner but you also drive value to the business. So how does that become something that actually isn't just compliance? People have to do it, tick a box.But actually it's really driving value to all stakeholders.

So we know, Steve, that the hospitality industry is a very hands on industry. So, so how would you ensure that the online learning kind of really speaks to people that don't normally like sitting behind a computer?

Well, the first thing is we, I think the reason why we love the hospitality part is we don't see, let's say the desktop is the main delivery device, so the mobile is the delivery device for the majority of the people in the hospitality industry. I mean you still got two audiences, right? You got 90% which is frontline and you got 10% head office.And I think you want to be having a solution that addresses both. But, but also recognizing 90% is, is frontline.And I think the second part of that is recognizing that no one really, especially that Frontline staff probably wants to be going through a one hour course and clicking next, next, next, which a lot of corporate learning is. So I think, I think this time around it was both sides, right?Is how do you create both a platform and my initial inspiration was YouTube and LinkedIn back 1012 years ago.So platforms where people are choosing to learn in a bite sized fashion, where the experts are talking in a short, concise, interesting, engaging way that you can search and find the knowledge you need at point.So I also bought in heavily to learning philosophies like Charles Jennings 70, 2010, you know, which is really about, you know, how do you make most of that learning available at point of need on the job, which is where mobile phone comes in. And also recognizing look that if you go through a course, you're not going to remember most of it anyway.So how do I think that's where, you know, modern frameworks of learning really think about learning more holistically and therefore how does your platform support that holistic design?And when I say holistically, I think again, the really successful companies in hospitality we have like scanning hotels or IHG or Levy hotels, they view that that shift is how do I make more of the learning at point of need, how do I do less of trying to store all that knowledge in your head, which is impossible, and then hope you can retain it all? So how do I give you the minimum in order to set you going?And then down the road then I'm making it kind of YouTube, Google, ChatGPT, like so you're making the experience they do in their home lives and their consumer lives. Exactly. Available in their corporate life. So yeah, go for it.

Yeah, you've used that phrase a couple of times now for anyone listening who doesn't know what it means and also me, what do you mean when you say point of need, like specifically, is it as obvious as it sounds or is there a way of sort of, is that a helpful framework for people?

Yeah, so when I talk about point of need, I guess I'm going to say moment of need. I think, I think the first thing is we recognize that, you know, the old world of learning is you've got two flavors, right? A black and white.You've got a face to face classroom event or elearning digital course.This new world, right is with platforms like Fuse is offering a myriad or a plethora of those two words of different options and choices to give to that experience designer to serve to that particular, that particular need if you like.So if I, if I think about moments of need and there's a guy called Bob Mosher that defines five moments of need, the biggest moment need is I've got a problem right now, how do I solve it?So and if you think about YouTube and ChatGPT in two different ways, one video and one mainly text, those are two great moment of needs or point of need type type learning things. So if I don't know, if I don't know how to fix my phone, I would probably either watch you go to YouTube or TikTok.Maybe I'd go to YouTube, my kids go to TikTok or. But it'll be a visual, right? I'm trying to find a short video that can physically show me the steps to do.And then in the moment of need or in the, in a chatgpt world, you know, or Google Maps, right I just want to, I need to go, do I go left or right? I don't need to remember it.And the chatgpt I want the answer to a question can you help me understand, you know what the battery I need to buy for my camera is?So those are moment of need stuff that why would I need to store that massive amount of knowledge when it's changing so quickly when I want to apply it?And also I think in the hospitality industry again if I take a great example like Levy restaurants recently, so you know, what they wanted to do was to digitize all that great tacit knowledge in the heads of their best people so anybody can access it in any moment of need. That moment of need may be during onboarding.So okay, I need to get basic foundations there, but I want to get it from the best people in the business.So how do I transfer the actual best codified best practice to the person in onboarding or when I forget or in or if it's been updated, you know, six months after my onboarding.So again it's recognizing there are different need that learning should be designed for in order to help the person ultimately be better at their job and perform at the highest level they can.

Steve, I have the same passion as you for training and development. I was in that industry for over 20 years. Well still am in a very different way and kind of like bite Sized learning just in time.Learning has been a concept that's been around for quite a long time.So what's the difference that you, you've made that's been able to help you make sure that people actually take it on board and take it seriously this time around?

Yeah, I think, I think first it, first is the combination, right of the content being in a format that is interesting and engaging that you would want to go to.And again, I think that's why YouTube teaches us so many lessons, right, that even right down to what's the thumbnail look like, what's the title look like, but the size of it and stuff as well. Right. So you know, if I see a 10 minute video, I don't always have 10 minutes but if I see 3 minutes I think, okay, I might be available to that.So I think the first is making sure the content is in tune with the audience.Second thing is if that's the best person in that, in levy restaurants or scanning hotels, the best person doing that, you respect them for that, you trust them for that and they're the best mojito maker in the world, then you're more likely to go back into and to say actually I've forgotten what mojito is, which rum it is, which part towards it, how to get the, you know, pulling a pint in the swell that's going through that you need to get towards it and now you, you do the perfect swirl to get the perfect, the perfect. All of those things are in the heads of great people.And ultimately the job I think of all of us is how do you get that great codification knowledge from the best of the people into the heads of everyone else. So you're creating consistency. So I think in a.To the point, one point is one of the things that we've done traditionally is help people codify in bite sized videos. So how do you interview them to extract out that knowledge in a really quick, fast way?So rather than building an e learning course, you're extracting out, you know, you're stretching out with the purpose of creating a series of bite sized videos to explain all the tasks and procedures that people do to make them task capable. So that and make it. And then the second thing is making that as accessible as it would be on a YouTube or a ChatGPT or Google.So one is a content piece that needs to be got right. There's no point.But if somebody comes and just puts all their old crappy courses onto our platform, we'll do a lot more with it, but it's not going to revolutionize. They do. Right. So there is a journey. And the second thing is the accessibility from a platform side.So what you want to make sure is, yeah, you have that YouTube style feel. So both in terms, when I find it, I want to play it, I want to get towards it, I want to be independent of language.So things like us, if you log in, it will recognize your language and it'll play the relevant language for you. But also, sometimes I don't want a video, I just want to talk to it. So the latest is all of the.Everything we do from an AI perspective, it will automatically transcribe the content, it will translate the content, but then I can talk to the content. So I can just ask the question and say, I don't want to go and find the video on the mojito. I just want to ask a question of what rum.What's the best rum to use for mojitos? And it's the company's knowledge of the best thing is white rum from this brand. Great. I'm on. I'm onto my job now. So I think it's.One is getting your content in a format that is consumable in itself, but it's now in today's world, getting in a. In a format that technologies like us, which is AI and has that chat conversational piece that allows that as well. Right.So I do think, I mean, saying that though, one thing we have actually just relaunched is a new AI course builder. So this allows us to fast track that task at knowledge piece.The AI course builder means you can interview the expert now, literally throw it into the platform and build me a course on. On being a great barista. Right.And it will automatically, you tell it to say, it will chunk up the video into the relevant pieces, it will extract the text and put it around it. It will give it the relevant amount of interactivity you choose.You tell it the audience you're, and then you say you know what language you want it translated. So in five minutes you've got something that's 80% ready.But also, and also it will then allow all the content to be accessed in that conversational way as well. So you're creating something automatically. That's formal training and informal kind of point of need.If you like, back to the moment, you're able to create more moments of need type learning from a very raw, quick, fast way.

It's very, very cool. Steve.

Yeah,.

I'll ask, like, how do you. I was just about to ask how, how Is it that you manage to make it so user friendly, you know, from the business standpoint, for.Because obviously hospitality is such a, you know, it's such a unregulated, so many obviously branches to it. But even within the branches there's very little standardization.And every place has its own ops, every place has its own systems, every place has its own structures. That's pretty cool. When I think about learning, I think about these two kinds, right?There's the kind like when you learn how to speak and when you learn how to speak, you will continue to, you know, by and large continue to be sharpening that sword your whole life, right? You keep, you keep maintaining it. It's a skill that you learn and you maintain it and you improve it.And then there's the learning like the stuff that you do in your driving test, you know, mirror, signal, maneuver, which, you know, hand and then say, which as soon as we are done with the test, we drop those things.And I wonder, I'm curious, how do you ensure that the learning that you provide on your platforms is more the first type that's continually reinforced, that's continually engaging, that's continually monitored and improved rather than the cool, I'm going to tick the box, I'm going to get the pass, going to get my level two cert, but then I'm going to mix up my chopping boards. How do you, how do you address that?

Yeah, and I think it's not all about technology, right. I think it's also about culture.So, you know, again, if I look at what the data tells us, the data tells us across all our clients that when leadership and line managers are actively involved in the learning process, their teams are too. So the top learners are the people that are seeing content, pushing content, encouraging their team to capture best practice and share it towards it.Those, those individuals in the teams are more engaged in that continuous learning habit.And then on top of that, when you then look at the behaviors of the people that have that continuous learning behavior, so they're using the platform multiple times a week, their actual data and KPIs in customer satisfaction, revenue and so forth is all above the people that aren't. So some of it is about.So you know, what we hit so far is that some of it is about making sure your content is a format people want to consume depending upon.Is it for my driving test, is it because I've forgotten or is it because something new and I want, I probably want that in different formats in different ways depending upon that side, the platform has to help on that. And ideally, right, they're, you know, the culture of the company.So if you've got line managers and therefore that's probably a little bit of work where the team has got to market and be salespeople to the organization.So you know, if you go and do that piece of work where you can show that's the direct correlation between frequent engagement in the platform and continuous learning and better performance to the, you know, the company's KPIs, you can take that data to departments and the managers and leaders that maybe aren't as evolved inside it and say, hey look, one of the things that you are seeing here is some of your team isn't so how can we help you? So I think that recognizing that is not just a case of field of dreams, let's build it and they will come.And the team's change of culture and stakeholder change is part of their role.

So you talked about the, the kind of KPIs there and we are very much a solution based podcast for sure. And I'm sure we've got listeners out there thinking is this really for me, you know, we're okay with the learning that we have.You know, we have staff, our attention is not too bad. KPIs are one thing, but what about the people side?How would you, what examples do you have of or a example of a company or business that you've implemented Fuse and it's and it's been successful for their training.

I think onboarding is a really interesting area around that. Right.So if you look at a practical example where organizations have changed, use our platform to be the change agent to move from course only to this more holistic way of learning. It's actually purpose driven and business and designed with business impact.So if you look at onboarding especially the normal impact is how do you get people to the KPI they want to get to in a reduced period of time. So and that affects the people bit, right? Because it's about happiness.What's undoubtedly if you, if you look and I look at my local, local coffee shop, you know, caffeine era, right. And when they turn, when a new member of staff goes in there, you can see the person is really uncomfortable for a period of time.And then one day I know there's a lady in there that worked there and one day she personalities come out and I said to you know what changed today? Why, why have you gone, you know, why are you now beaming versus you probably felt before? And she goes, I know how to do my job.So the quicker you get to that person that says I'm now confident and happy doing my job, undoubtedly right there's a retention benefit from that. So the people happiness is a retention benefit which has obviously massive benefits to the HR teams.So then if you look at a technology and an approach to learning that we have, which is I guess less training, more learning, meaning not stuffing everything up front.So again what our clients tend to do in all these hospitality retail is they reduce the amount of upfront training but they make everything available in the best knowledge at point of need. Because you know if I put you on a two week induction course, three week and boarding, you're not going to retain it all anyway.But if I make the best person who's making the best coffee, knowing how the machine's working or the system's working and that's then that's accessible like in, in two seconds we always talk about two clicks or 10 seconds.So if you can make that knowledge available and, and, and move away from reliance on the person next to you because otherwise learning is how good is the person next to me is going to be impacting how quickly I can learn. Because that's in hospitality main way they're learning.If you move that say you've got the best person in the organ, you're every single best person in the organization. YouTube channel, right?So our YouTube channel for kids, it's the best teachers explaining each concept and everyone says and now get the concept in five minutes versus my teacher been trying to explain it for two years.So you take that concept and take it to hospitality, you've got the best barista, the best relationship person, all that knowledge is available within, within two clicks or 10 seconds. And then the key thing then is creating a habit during onboarding.So in building an onboarding program where it's okay to go find and search and when you achieve that, that's when then you take the time to competence literally down by 2/3.And, and what we stories, you know, happiness scores people within six weeks that normally takes, normally in this one client it would take six months for people to get to the average 72 point NPS score. What they found is in six weeks with this new technique with tool through here they're getting to 84 on the net NPS score.So they're beating the company average in six weeks by making the best knowledge available at that point of need. But you've got to get that. And then sometimes I go to a store or to a restaurant and I ask a question to the people. Oh, you know, subtly.I know they use Fuse. Right. But you're trying to. A bit of mystery topping my own. So, you know, go in there and sell. To use Fuse. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, why is that?Oh, you know, I just work for the company and then they get quite excited and they start saying how they're using it. One guy in the shop, actually, this was retail rather than hospitality, but it was in a shop and he goes, oh, oh, you're infused.Oh, let me get this guy over and explained it to me. Actually, you know, you asked a few more questions. Who are you? Why do you keep asking questions to. Actually, I'm the Nick is. Oh, Lily. Other guy over.He said to this guy, what happened when you first joined and you asked a question? He said, go look confused. What happened the second time you asked me a question? Go look confused one. The third time I just went by myself. So habit.They created the work habit, that is the consumer habit of that Google YouTube ChatGPT thing by creating the environment, but they still needed to create the habit in the corporate environment because that's. Look, even if it already existed, you're a bit.When you achieve that, you're getting people to happiness and therefore retention in a far reduced period of time. That's the beauty.

And I think one of the, like I say, beauties about Fuse as well is that you're getting not just the best barista, for example, but it's the best trainer. I think one of the issues I always had in that industry was that people think, well, if you're good at something, you can train it.And it's like, actually no, there is a skill set behind there.So I think knowing like that comfort that I'm getting the best of the best in every way is going to be great for your, your career and your confidence. But.

But also I also think that the role of the train is changing too. Right. So undoubtedly so in a digital world, that trainer is no longer just that face to face trainer, but like more like a YouTube champion as well.So.And also part of their knowledge, part of that new skill sets and capability is how did that person becomes an interviewer to interview the experts in the business to extract out that correct explanation. There is new skills that are coming with these new technologies. So who's feeding the brain and how do you capture it?Sometimes it's a trainer, sometimes it's that trainer who's now got a new interviewing skill that's asking the questions to extract out great Knowledge that's going to make that great bit of content in all those different formats.

Steve, if anyone wants to find out more about Fuse or wants to get involved, where would they go?

Well, before maybe before I get there, one thing I wouldn't mind just adding on top right around, just again is around designing learning. I think the opportunity now, which is learning for inclusivity.So what I mean by that is, I think again, when we say what's the difference with Fuse, the platform? So this big belief that, that inclusivity is a barrier if you don't embrace it. So inclusivity in all its formats, right? So we talked about a few.So inclusivity is not just having it in my default language. Today, again, with AI and platforms like ours, it's so easy now to make that content available in French, German.So one thing I was really passionate around there is inclusivity breaking. Again, when we look at how do you make learning effective an organization, it really is about engagement, right?If we know that great engagement leads to better productivity with all the things we talked about, then the big thing here is then how do you make learning more engaging? Some of that's the stuff we talked about, but one is breaking down those inclusivity barriers. What I mean by including barriers is language is one.So even though I may speak English, it may be my second language. And it's much harder to maybe understand stuff in a second language in the first language.So now with AI, the ability to translate the text, the audio, the video, all that allows one inclusivity barrier to pretty much be removed at almost zero cost. You know, the second one is, you know, neurodiversity.It may have come out, you know, I'm a little bit adhd, maybe a bit more than a little bit, you know, but as an ADHD person and ADHD family, lot of energy in my house, you know, I recognize that my brain prefers to learn differently than an autistic person. So a friend of mine is autistic, would want everything bullet point, to the point summarized, you know, bang, bang, bang.For me, I need multiple stimulus, right? Make it visual, make it video, you know, and stimulate me in a different way towards it.And I want it bite sized, concise, I want a story with it versus my autistic friend just gives. So again, with AI, you know, it's now possible to make that in a really easy way when making newer, diverse content.And you can choose the format you want, even right down to the modes, right? If I interview and create that first video, then literally In a button.I've got that available in text, in audio, in a podcast, in a rap video, you know, whatever, whatever. I want all from that. Right.So I think the multimodal bit, the diversity, the language piece towards it and the moment of need bit are all different barriers of inclusivity that now go away with platforms. And thinking like us, that allows us to remove and break down those barriers.

Exciting times. Off the sound of all this.

Honestly, I'm excited. I'm excited.

I need to get back into trading, I think.

Steve, how can Fuse help with diversity, equity and inclusion?

Yeah, we'll just.

That's fine. We'll cut it in.

Okay. Right, okay.

Okay, I'll tee that up. Do you want to do like your contact stuff now?

Well, and maybe one more thing. I do think with AI, right, so with AI, we just been. We've just been certified as with ISO AI certification.And one of those things is to make sure that you're using AI in an ethical way. That's so forth too. Right. So I think it's also important that we choose technologies that are inclusive and have that bias view as well.

Brilliant.

So best way to get hold of us is obviously our website and contact us on www.fuseuniversal.com or personally. Anyone that wants to DM me really happy at Steve Dineen on LinkedIn. So D I N W N and yeah, lots of chat, passionate subjects.So, yeah, always up for conversation.

Thank you so much, Steve, for joining us.Your passion shines through and I think that's so important in the kind of learning industry and making sure that people want to learn new stuff and new, new information for their jobs. So thank you very much for joining us today and we will see you soon, I'm sure.

Thanks, Steve.

Thanks so much, guys. See you.

Cheers, Steve. Take care. Bye Bye.