How Can You Make Your Brand Stand Out?

Sachin Parmar00:00:24

Branding is not just design, it's a feeling. You can't just say we're sustainable. If you're going to be open up and you're going to say we're a sustainable restaurant, are you truly sustainable?And you need to make sure.And this is all connected to the branding because you have to really think hard about technology, think about how are you going to get bombs on seats or heads and beds in hotels.These are the kind of factors that all connected to the branding and then that will really help you understand how much are we going to invest to open up this restaurant?

Sanj Naha00:00:53

Why should I come to your restaurant or to your hotel? The second question is, why should I come back?

Sachin Parmar00:01:00

I think one, one of the easiest thing is to get a new customer in the door. The hardest thing is to keep them coming back and what do they want to come back with?It's all consistency, but you have to make sure that you have that experience because without that experience, the expectations now are so high. The voices, you know. Timothy, Tracy and Joe on the show, from front of house to chefs on the line, every.

Theme Tune00:01:48

Voice can shape the future each time.

Timothy R Andrews00:01:58

Hello, welcome to the show. Sachin and Sanj from Graphic Kitchen. How are we both today? Thanks for joining us.

Sanj Naha00:02:05

Very well, thanks, Tim.

Sachin Parmar00:02:06

Great, thanks. Look forward to going through this podcast with you.

Timothy R Andrews00:02:09

Likewise. It's great to have you on this side.So for those of you who I'm sure know Graphic Kitchen have been helping us with our branding and they did such a great job, it's lovely to have them on site here with us, us today. So, guys, thank you so much.Quick question for you because, you know, we're all about educating people and getting them to know about how they can learn things for their own business. One of the things that we haven't really talked about much is branding and what that can do and how that can affect people coming into your business.You know, in terms of we're very competitive in hospitality, it's a competitive space. There's all the talk about how we need to attract more people, particularly during a crisis.So how important is brand in that situation to attract people, do you think, guys?

Sachin Parmar00:02:56

So there's a famous thing about Jeff Bezos is people say talk about your brand when you're not in the room and it's apt for the hospitality industry especially because without brand consistency, you can't really see the growth.And that's what people are expecting with, with the massive influx of all of these American franchises that coming over in the uk and they're kind of like taking over cities, people are now connecting with that better because they want the same consistency from whether they're in Yorkshire or they're going down to Scotland or they're going to London or even Petersburg, whatever it is.So that brand connection is so important and it needs to make sure that is consistent because with any hospitality sector, whether it's sources to hotels, restaurants, you have to absolutely make sure it's consistent from when someone goes to your Instagram, someone goes to your website, someone even talks to somebody when they're walking through the door and to. To the point where they're even eating the food and the actual waitress or waiter is actually serving, serving the dishes to them.That, that's the whole brand consistency. Because branding is not just design, it's a feeling.

Timothy R Andrews00:04:09

Very true. It's all about experiential, isn't it? Now these days, I think so.People seem to forget, like, you see some places where they forget it's about experience and Gen Z in particular, want spend their money on experience. Because we're talking Instagrams a lot of the time and people kind of want to, you know, post where they are.And if you've got that influence, even in the hotel that I'm working in at the moment, we've created afternoon tea space, one of the areas in the afternoon space, it's all about Instagram because it's all about the experience.

Timothy R Andrews00:04:38

We have a chef live cooking when they come in, or not cooking, but putting the sandwiches together and doing that.And then later on when it becomes a bar in that same area, you see them still using the ingredients, fresh ingredients in front of the customers, putting them into the cocktails and all mocktails probably. So it's that kind of thing. You're absolutely right. It's brand throughout. Right. And you get it one wrong. It's like toilets. For me, it's toilets.If toilets are terrible, that's how I judge a place. Because people seem to forget that you're still representing your brand.

Sachin Parmar00:05:12

YeahAnd you can, you can tell what an experience you're going to have in the toilet is by the types of tissue that they give you when you're washing your hands.I know it sounds really weird, but when I go into hotels or restaurants, I can really judge what the quality of experience I'm going to have just by going to the toilet.

Timothy R Andrews00:05:29

I've never thought about that before.

Sachin Parmar00:05:30

And then, and then that's the other thing. If you go to, if you go. I went to a restaurant where they Had a Japanese toilet. Oh, my God, these guys. And it was an Asian, Asian place.So I thought, this place is going to be amazing. And was it? Yeah, it was, but not that I go. Not that I walk in and go straight to the toilet check out. But yeah, I don't check it out that way.But obviously when I'm halfway through whatever, I do need to go and do a comfort break, then I do kind of check that out. But yeah, next time, wherever you go, go and check the. Go and check the hand towels that you wipe your hands with, if they have any.

Joe McDonnell00:06:01

I can imagine me going, I can see the name of the episode now. Talking Toilets.

Timothy R Andrews00:06:05

Yeah, I could, I could see you now going, right, Nisha, before we sit down, I'm just going to go and check out the leaves. Right, right, we're leaving. Food's going to be terrible. They only use 2 ply.

Sanj Naha00:06:18

But I remember about 15 years ago when, when Drake and Morgan first kind of launched their restaurants, their kind of USP was they had amazing toilets. And they did. And that's what people were noticing. And this is before the whole kind of social media thing was kicking in.But, but just by the word of mouth, people were saying how amazing they looked, how amazing they were, and words spread really quickly.

Timothy R Andrews00:06:41

Actually, we're all high end here, so.

Sachin Parmar00:06:44

Okay.

Timothy R Andrews00:06:51

Yeah. So back to branding and experience. I think you're absolutely right.You know, it's, it's one of the things that you've did for our podcast as well was looking at the journey, and we're still obviously working on that and that has improved things massively for us. I know from experience that even in this small little business, this is a thing.So in terms of hospitality, what sort of advice would you give to people that are thinking, right, I need to have a think about what I'm putting out there. Are there certain things that they should be considering?

Sachin Parmar00:07:21

I think they need to consider the customer experience.That's the most important factor because we speak to a lot of when we, when we are approached and we do want to kind of go in there and build a brand. A lot of people want to open up a restaurant and they, they end up spending everything on the interior. But then they, they.And what's crazy, they actually forget about the one tool that makes them the money in a restaurant, and that's the menu.And with this issue with people, with the hospitality crisis where you can't get the staff and so on, the menu should do the talking and the selling without someone upselling. Because if the Staff haven't been trained.And this is all connected to branding, right, Is when someone goes to the website and they look at the pictures of the food and they're sitting with this menu, if the menu hasn't been branded or curated properly. And I'm talking about even not just the design, but the names of the dishes and the descriptions and all.And again, making sure you've got all of the right allergens everywhere as well. So that's the way the whole branding, it has to be consistent.So my advice is, when it comes to branding a restaurant that you're thinking about, don't cut corners, but you need to work with people that are experienced in the industry.Because nowadays you can get a logo, you can get a website, get anyone to do anything online, someone at university can do it, which is not a problem for a startup.But if you really want to think about, I want to be here for the next five, 10 years, you've got to really build that foundation in the same way that you.You buy a piece of land and you get architect to build, you do the drawing, you get the right builders in place and then you start putting, putting the whole house together. The deeper your foundation is, the higher the building is going to be. And that, that's what you got to really think about.And one thing that is apparent is when you do open up a restaurant and you have to think about, really work with your accountant and really plan out how much is this going to cost? Because I got this, I want the experience for when someone walks in and which only lasts 10 seconds, right?You can spend a million pounds in the way your restaurant looks. That's 10 seconds only. And the rest of it is all the other bits that happen.So it's that consistency from when someone walks in and somebody actually buys a dish. And it has to be connected to the branding. Even thinking about the uniform, thinking about the way is the front of staff trained properly.And this is all about the branding, the vision and the mission and the purpose and all of that. Because you can't just say we're sustainable.If you're going to be open up and you're going to say we're a sustainable restaurant, are you truly sustainable? And you need to make sure.And this is all connected to the branding because you have to really think hard about technology, think about how are you going to get bombs on seats or heads and beds in hotels.These are the kind of factors that all connected to the branding and then that will really help you understand how much are we Going to invest to open up this restaurant. And one thing people get wrong so much is they open up a really good restaurant in the wrong location.

Timothy R Andrews00:10:14

I used to work at private members club in the West End and we were just the wrong side of that corner. And we're talking like meters, couple of meters, not anything, but we were just the wrong side of the flow, so.And it didn't matter what they did, we wouldn't get them in. Like, even in Pride London, like, you know, the biggest gay party in London, where it's just so ho. It's just people falling out of the.You know, falling out of it. Even when we had a drag queen on the front, still nobody came into the club. I mean, we may as well had a big neon sign saying, come here.We love the gaze. Nothing. Right. And it was all because of those two meters. We were in the wrong place.

Sachin Parmar00:10:58

Yeah, crazy.

Timothy R Andrews00:11:05

So in terms of. Actually you mentioned bums on seats and beds in head.So in terms of getting people through the door, you've said, like, this is what people should do. Is there something specifically people should be considering with the brand?And I've talked about the experience, but like, is there sort of a message that people should be putting out, do you think, to a potential audience?

Sachin Parmar00:11:24

I think one, one of the easiest thing is to get a new customer in the door. The hardest thing is to keep them coming back. And what do they want to come back with?It's all consistency, but you have to make sure that you have that experience. Because without that experience, the expectations now are so high.And with the crisis going on and cost of living going up, everyone's either choosing to dine in a company like Gusto and HelloFresh, they're booming because people are now choosing to stay in because that's the new. The out is the in in. And if someone's going to be spending 50 pound ahead, is the food going to be good? Are they going to have a great time?And these are the kind of aspects that you got to really think about. And. And it has to be technology first. So why do I say technology first? We just opened up a new restaurant recently. Well, yesterday in Ruislip.And one of the key things to that is we've. We've been marketing it for the last two months and people were excited. So as soon as they pushed the button, they were fully booked for the weekend.Because what they did as well is the expectations now, especially the younger generation. How many times have anybody rang a restaurant and no one picks up the phone? How Annoying is that. And do people actually want to pick ring?Some people just want a message. So having a chatbot on the website, which is automated and it can take people to booker the booking table and basically book. I see.But also contact form, like there's.There's so much of this technology because it has to be a full ecosystem of the brand from when someone first finds you on Instagram to how do they book a table and get there? Because ultimately is, if you don't have that experience in place, they're going to go somewhere else.Because at that moment, within that hour, they've already decided with their mates they want to go out and they're looking for someone to eat and if they can't go on your website, they can't book a table, then they're going to go somewhere else.

Timothy R Andrews00:13:24

I think that's a really good point. So in terms of. So I'm loving this because it's also the experience how to get, once people are in, do that, what message you're putting out.But of course, one of the big things people look at is reviews, Right. So they look at things like TripAdvisor and other platforms.Now, Sanj, I know that you are particularly adept in understanding and helping people work with TripAdvisor. Would you like to talk to our audience about that, please?

Sanj Naha00:13:51

Yeah, sure. Okay. So my background in terms of hospitality, I guess comes from my father.My father was a real kind of pioneer in the Indian kind of curry restaurant house world. 1964, he opened up the first Indian restaurant in the east of England. My hometown's a town called Ipswich in Suffolk.And my father opened up a nice original name, the Taj Mahal, and kind of brought curry to that part of the world. And, you know, for me, you know, I've got. I've got fond memories.I'm a 70s child and I've got fond memories of being in that restaurant, just watching my father kind of be the brand of that restaurant and getting stressed out if there was an empty seat on a Friday night or on a Saturday night, because there wasn't an awful lot he could do about it in terms of kind of marketing, because you basically were reliant on your advert in the yellow Pages or you had flyers and that. That memory stuck with me. He didn't want me to have anything to do with.With restaurants, but, you know, I ended up kind of working in the restaurant, but he didn't want me working or having a career there. So it went off. Studied economics, became a management consultant, but I Ended up in hospitality tech.And late 2000s I was out in, in Dubai launching a daily deal concept to all the kind of luxury brands.

Timothy R Andrews00:15:09

That are out there.

Sanj Naha00:15:11

And then came back to London and I was at the forefront of online technology. So 2010 11, kind of introducing online reservations to all the fine dining restaurants, casual dining restaurants, pub groups.And that gave me a real kind of insight into tech for hospitality. And then ended up being invited to join TripAdvisor when they were growing and scaling their restaurant side of their business.I was kind of heading up that part and that gave me a great insight into kind of not only uk, but internationally as well, how restaurants and hotels were using tech, online reservation, online reputation to really get more guests, get more customers. So for me, what I, I've been focused on in the last few years is really, I guess, helping an operator with two fundamental questions.First question being as a guest, why should I come to your restaurant or to your hotel?And a lot of that is based on branding, but also based on what kind of reviews are out there, be it on TripAdvisor or be it on Google or wherever their online reputation exists. And when they do experience that operator, the second question is, why should I come back?And that why should I come back really depends on what kind of experience they've had and how the various teams in the restaurant or the hotel have really influenced that guest experience.So for me, that's those two why questions have been kind of fundamental and have been very fortunate to work with a mixture of brands all over the place.

Timothy R Andrews00:16:54

What do you think is one of the biggest difficulties for businesses when it comes to TripAdvisor? What advice could you give, perhaps that make things a bit better?

Sanj Naha00:17:06

I mean, the first thing is understanding that TripAdvisor is relevant.Obviously, we've seen the rise of Google, we've seen the rise of Instagram and TikTok, and guests will be vocal and will either verbalize or will take photos or will take videos of their experiences.But Tripitize, interestingly, has, you know, still has a significant role to play, purely because when people are posting reviews, they're investing a lot of insight into those reviews. And all the research shows that, yeah, it's easier to post a Google review, but normally you're just putting a rating and a few words.People that contribute to TripAdvisor are putting a lot more insight into their experience, putting a lot more kind of photographs into their review. And that adds to the natural SEO on Google.So someone's searching for a place to eat or A place to stay, a TripAdvisor review or the TripAdvisor listing is highly likely to appear very quickly and be very prominent. We occasionally have some dad's evenings, my son's school. And whenever anyone suggests a restaurant, there's normally two reactions that come.One is, well, here's the review or the ranking on TripAdvisor and the other one is the hygiene rating. So they have kind of on equal par in terms of the decision making. So the first thing is being aware that TripAdvisor is still highly relevant.Then it's a case of understanding how it works and it's demystifying, I guess, the algorithm and what contributes to trying to improve your ranking, trying to improve your average rating. Recently, TripAdvisor have been handing out their Traveler's Choice Awards, which are only given out to the top 10% of operators.And it's understanding how you can achieve that award. Once you understand how it works and how the game works, then it's a case of, right, what do you do about it?What are the contributing factors in terms of getting more reviews, getting more positive reviews, getting more engagement from guests. And there's a whole kind of art to that.So it's understanding the science of it and then it's understanding the artistry of how you really leverage it and really take advantage of it.

Joe McDonnell00:19:25

Sanj, you probably know there's a lot of, there's a lot of operators, probably a scary number who, who sort of bury the head in the sand a little bit when it comes to TripAdvisor, right? Because I know firsthand, I can remember a few instances where one, for instance, a couple came on a Saturday night, we were full.They left a one star review of the restaurant saying they wouldn't let us in because they're snobby, because they made up something. It's like, well, the reason is we're full. You didn't book. I'm sorry, we had to say no.And it was nigh on impossible to get through the TripAdvisor to get the review brought down. And actually when we finally did get through to them, they said, look, that's their experience as a legitimate. We're not here to.Was it safeguarding the phrase they used? It was something like that, that we're not here to influence people's opinions. And I think that leads to a lot of frustration for operators. Right.Often they'll say, well, I'm not going to bother, I'm not going to listen to that because it's all rubbish. And I'm fighting a losing battle. What would you say to people who've got that sort of attitude towards tripping that.

Sanj Naha00:20:30

The short answer is you need to take the emotion out of it. And I'll explain why. About eight years ago I was, I was a judge, Global Restaurant Award, one of these kind of events.It was out in Dubai and, and there was a really famous celebrity chef who was on the panel and basically when we were chatting, he basically said, when TripAdvisor came up in conversation, he basically said, since the whole audience, I don't give an F about, about TripAdvisor. A few weeks later he invited me to come and help him and he's got award winning restaurants all over the world.But what I explained to him was that, look, take the emotion out of it, understand how the game works and then you can leverage it. And lo and behold, a few months later, all these restaurants were benefiting from it.And actually recently, just a few months ago, there was a high profile restaurant in Mayfair. The owner approached me. He's always hated TripAdvisor.But again I explained to him, look, this is what you can do and explain to him, Look, 99, this is the same for most operators. 99% of guests are having an amazing time when they come to your restaurant or when they come to your hotel.So actually the challenge is to try and get those guests to talk about their experiences. You are always going to get negative reviews. It's human nature. It's absolutely human nature.I remember when I was with TripAdvisor about 10 years ago, Italy was a huge problem for TripAdvisor. The whole Italian market, the hotel operators, the restaurant operators were an uproar because they were getting loads of negative reviews.But that's because culturally Italians like to complain, okay? And so they're naturally going to put negative reviews.There had to be a whole education element to get all the associations to understand that look, that's not going anywhere. What you've got to try and do though is compensate by getting positive reviews.And that's why I always advise operators, you are always going to get negative reviews. People will want to rant and rave and complain. Some will be legit, legitimate negative reviews and we need to learn from that.But what you've got to try and do is you've got to try and just keep focusing on getting positive reviews because that will then shift the balance in your favor. And TripAdvisor is they always have been biased towards consumers. It's just a fact.And yes, it's hard to complain to them, it's hard to challenge, it's hard to red flag.You're always going to get hospitality espionage where you get competitors who are kind of throwing in fake reviews and you're always going to get those types of guests who are trying to get a discount and trying to get this, that and the other. If you accept that and you just focus on the positives, it kind of, it counts as it.

Joe McDonnell00:23:04

So it sounds like you say, basically, it sounds like it boils down to two things. It's managing your mindset and managing your emotions around it. And also, I guess, like the grass is greener where you water it. Right.So you're just trying to cultivate an environment where five star reviews are encouraged and they kind of drown out the noise of the, you know, whether they're valid or not. All those one and two stars.

Sanj Naha00:23:32

Absolutely.And while I kind of preach about TripAdvisor, what I found is that when I'm kind of working with operators, if you get it right on TripAdvisor, you're getting it right on everything else because it kind of filters through, you have that ripple effect.So once you start, you know, putting some, some best practices into play and you're starting to get more reviews, you'll get more reviews on TripAdvisor, on Google, you'll get more positive comments on Instagram, on TikTok, wherever your online reputation exists.

Joe McDonnell00:23:59

That's brilliant. Yeah.

Sachin Parmar00:24:00

And I would like to add to that as well. So what you got to Also remember about TripAdvisor, TripAdvisor is a beast in itself. It's actually a search engine.So if you, if you think about that, if I'm getting ranked well on that search engine, why am I just concentrating Google? I need to concentrate on that as well. Because when it comes to SEO and website ranking, it helps just push.Push your website ranking even further to number one spot.

Timothy R Andrews00:24:32

That's actually a good point. That is a very, very good point. Because I think sometimes it's easy to take it for granted when you're a consumer.Unless I've got friends that they will only go to place after they've reviewed TripAdvisor and there's people like them, you'll chuck something in Google and it's where do it take me? TripAdvisor and I haven't kind of connected the dots. But of course that's where you go. It's entirely a search engine.It's a really, really good point, Sasha.

Sachin Parmar00:24:54

And you know, you know what's crazy? Right? So this is where Me and Sandra, where we're talking to when we, when we're talking to the restaurant owners is people. When we go on holiday.Yeah. And we're planning a holiday in six months time, we're gonna, my wife does this a lot.She'll look at all of the restaurants, you'll plan out where we're gonna eat for the whole 10 days or whatever it is. And we do that and she does that through TripAdvisor.Well, you've got to remember when people are coming over to the UK and they're doing the same thing or they're living in York, whatever, it's for the week, they're going to look in TripAdvisor. Right. And if you're not ranked number one on there, they're not going to go to your restaurant.So this is the thing that people, it's not just about us locally, it's about people coming in like, especially like in central London, if you've got a location in Piccadilly Circus, whatever, you know there's going to be a massive influx of people worldwide. And if you're not ranked number one or got a good ranking in the top 100 in TripAdvisor, they're not going to find you.And then the same thing applies for Google because in Google, because like San said as well, is once you get the learning and you know how to, and you master TripAdvisor, that's going to filter through to Google. And with Google you need to be in the top three spot in Google Maps. If you're not in the top three spot you're not going to be found.No one's going to click more. How many times does anybody go past page two on Google? No one does.

Sanj Naha00:26:09

About, about six years ago I was, I was helping a casual chain brand to improve their TripAdvisor performances and I went into one of their branches in North London and on that particular day, it was January 2019, that particular branch was ranked 15,000 out of 18,000 restaurants in, in London. So they weren't doing particularly well after putting into play my kind of playbook framework.Four months later me and the family were out in Fiji, right the other side of the world for my brother in law's wedding. And I get a phone call from the owners of the brand saying hey, great news Sanj.That particular restaurant has now gone from 15,000 to number one in London. Okay. They generated massive PR from it. It was a franchise model.So they instantly got about at least about 50mil in terms of additional revenue from franchise revenue. That particular restaurant boosted their revenue by 40%. It gave them more credibility as, as a brand in terms of what they were doing.And that's just one example.But, but what I've also found is that when, when restaurants and hotels are improving their tripadvisor performance, yes, you get quick wins in terms of increased revenue.You'll get more people being more aware of you, you'll get more walk ins, you'll get more bookings, more reservations, you'll get more collections, takeaway deliveries. But there's so many other benefits. Team members suddenly start getting mentioned more on reviews so they start feeling more recognized, more valued.You get more healthy competition between team members, between different sites, between different departments in a hotel, for example. And that creates that kind of healthy competition. And there's a boost, there's a focus, there's a focus on who the competitors are.So you suddenly get all these additional benefits as well as stakeholders and investors becoming obviously more satisfied in terms of what's happening. So yeah, there's so many additional benefits to just having a good online reputation.

Timothy R Andrews00:28:13

Is there anything you would like to ask?

Joe McDonnell00:28:14

Yeah, I think it'd be really nice people to. I think.Okay, so we help people with social media quite a lot because especially, I mean it's changing, it is still evolving, it is still growing so quickly, but it's such a foggy industry to have to suddenly tap into. It's kind of like being a hospitality operator. Kind of, kind of feels like you're a spider and you have to have a leg in.A bit of a leg in HR and a bit of a leg in customer service. A bit of a leg and all of a sudden it's like you've already got, suddenly, you've already got two arms, two legs.But suddenly now we've got to grow another leg and learn about social media. That's, that's such a challenge for anyone, let alone somebody who's already running a whole lot of, you know, got a, got a lot.Well, is running a venue or even a group in that sort of context. And I guess Sachin, like how do you sort of define if we were trying to pull away the fog of war on brand? Like how would you define it?Because he talks about what it is and it's not just a logo. And we've talked about what it is in terms of it being the experiential, it being the perception, we talked about toilets.But how do you guys define what brand actually means?

Sachin Parmar00:29:28

It's, it's really understanding the purpose and it's it's digging deep into that is like, what's the purpose of the brand and is that connected everywhere?And, and let's say, for example, if, if the, the food being served is a particular way and the, the restaurant looks a particular way, there's a massive disconnect. It has to be connected. And if it's going to be authentic Thai food is everything else authentic? It, it's, you really have to have that connection.And how do we define it? Is.It's quite simple because, look, owning a restaurant is one of the most toughest things anyone can do because you literally wake up in the morning and you might know what's going to happen because if your chef doesn't turn up, you're going to have to go in the kitchen, but then you might not know how to cook and then what do you do? You're fully booked for the weekend.So there's all of these things that can happen, but it's just about making sure that it comes down to kind of consistency. That's, that's why I always say, look, do not cut corners. If you look, the bottom line is that we've got these, these, these devices, right?And now everybody's a photographer, everybody knows how to run social media, everybody can take pictures, but you need to hire professionals to do stuff and you need to concentrate on the things you're good at. And this is just purely running the business, right? If you, if you're good at.And it's all about operations, it's fully connected through all of that. And you're right, you. Social media is a new little. And, and Instagram is a different marketing tool. It's not.Your whole mark is not just one place you market and you got to use each platform in the right way. You can't just say, oh, I'm going to put. Just use Instagram and do that. Because you get these Instagram restaurants, right?I remember when I was in, in Mayfreme, there was, I was sitting in this restaurant, there was like massive queue outside and it didn't look that great. But it's one of those places that he's just an Instagram restaurant.Everybody's going there to try it, but then are they going to come back afterwards? And can you really grow a business on that model? Really? Because it's not about now, it's about can you last for 10 years?

Joe McDonnell00:31:32

So consistency, connection and purpose.

Sachin Parmar00:31:35

That's right. It's always purpose. Look, we're born with a purpose and it takes us years to figure out what it is. And the brand is the same.And the younger generation are looking to work in brands that have purposes.

Joe McDonnell00:31:54

One of my favorite quotes or quotes, but like stats from someone called Daniel Priestley was just recently on Steven Bartlett's Diary of a CEO, and he was talking about the. It's about the. How people do business with people.

Sachin Parmar00:32:10

Right.

Joe McDonnell00:32:10

And the example he gives is Cristiano Ronaldo has got. It's something like probably over a billion followers on Instagram. Right.And that is something like three times the number of followers that all of the Premiership league teams have on Instagram. Yeah, it's like. It's like people follow people, not brands. And I wonder if you could speak to that. Maybe. Maybe Sanj.Maybe session like Sanj you were talking about with the Taj Mahal and your dad. And he. He was the brand, right? He was the experience. But obviously now we're sort of.We're looking, if we're looking to scale, because obviously we take your dad out of that restaurant, and it's not the same beast. And we want to have processes. We want to have brands that represent people, but aren't dependent on the people.So what advice would you give to restaurants who are trying to develop their brand, trying to define their brand, maybe around the experience, maybe around the founders, but not. Not making it so that they're the linchpin anymore?

Sanj Naha00:33:10

So for me, I'm pretty old school when it comes to what. What a brand really means, because for me, it's very emotive. It's about how you feel. And so if you want to kind of emulate the.The personality characteristic or quality of the owner or the chef, you know, what you're trying to do is you're trying to emulate the moments that are created within the dining experience or the hotel experience.So for me, it's actually all about the moments, and it's defining what those moments are, because every team member can, can, can, can understand what moments can be created.Whether it's the preparation of the food, the serving of the food, preparation of the drinks, serving of the drinks, whether it's housekeeping, whether it's concierge, you know, whether it's front desk. Every. Every person will understand what their role and function is.But in addition to that is how you create moments and relevant moments for the different types of profile of guests that you have. So if you.If you can document that, if you can share ideas, if you can empower team members to add their personalities to it, then they feel not constrained in any way, and they feel supported and they, and they, they can create these kind of moments with guests. And that's, for me, fundamental because then you're creating feelings and experiences that really strengthen the core of the brand.

Timothy R Andrews00:34:40

Thank you very much, gentlemen. I'm afraid that is all we have time for. I feel like we could have carried this conversation on for quite some time. There was a. Yes, that's it.

Sachin Parmar00:34:50

I want to leave. I want to leave with this lovely quote I read in a book.And to survive an impossible situation, you don't need the reflexes of a Grand Prix driver, the muscles of Hercules or the mind of Einstein. You simply need to know what to do.

Timothy R Andrews00:35:10

Gentlemen, honestly, thank you very much. Have a lovely rest of your day. Thanks for coming.

Joe McDonnell00:35:14

Thanks, Tim.

Sanj Naha00:35:15

Thanks, Jay.

Joe McDonnell00:35:16

A huge thank you to our brand partners, Graphic Kitchen, for their continued support of Talking hospitality. Graphic Kitchen bring creative storytelling to life, helping hospitality brands stand out.

Theme Tune00:35:34

Talking hospitality, the voices, you know.