What Can We Learn From Drag Queens?

The COVID-19 pandemic has had a

devastating impact on the drag queen

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community.

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With bars and clubs closed for months on

end, performers lost their primary source

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of income.

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Many were forced to find new jobs or rely

on government assistance.

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In the early days of the pandemic, some

drag queens turned to digital platforms to

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perform for their fans.

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They hosted virtual drag shows, sold

merchandise online and even streamed their

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lives on social media.

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However, these efforts were not always

enough to make ends meet.

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And as the pandemic dragged on, many drag

queens found new ways to adapt.

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Some started their own businesses, such as

makeup tutorials or drag weave fitness

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classes, others turned to teaching or

writing.

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And still others found new ways to

perform, such as hosting drag branches or

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performing at outdoor events.

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As things have reopened, we want to find

out what drag queens are doing now.

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Have things returned to normal or have

things changed?

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you

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Welcome to a very special edition of

Talking Hospitality with two T's and a

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catel.

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I'm Timothy R.

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Andrews and I'm delighted to share that we

have a full house today.

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I'm joined by my wonderful co-hosts, the

delightful Tracy Rashid and the fabulous

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Sarah Catel.

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We have quite a spectacle lined up for

today.

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A round table discussion with three

immensely talented and vivacious drag

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queens.

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From Flynn Burge, aka Linda Bacardi, Harry

Casella,

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aka Mario Kart and Steven Maugham aka

Stephanie Von Keats.

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We're here courtesy of the Brighton Box

Gallery who are sponsoring today's event.

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The Brighton Box is an LGBTQ plus owned

award winning art gallery in the heart of

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the lanes, Brighton.

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Whatever your preferred style of art, the

Brighton Box Gallery is able to offer a

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wide range of unique and local artists at

thebrightonbox.com.

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Excited to have you all here with us

today?

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So let's start from the very beginning.

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So what we want to know is what inspired

you to get into drag or let's use drag as

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a verb here.

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Why do you drag?

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Let's start with Flynn.

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I was inspired to be honest.

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I've been doing drag for about 50 years.

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I started with the likes of Lily Savage

and whatever you started at the Black Cap

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in Camden.

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And I used to do websites with the likes

of Sandra and Titi Lacam, Boy George

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Experience, some of which are still on the

scene now.

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and being quite technical and whatever

you.

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And then one day I got asked to join in on

the drug amateur dramatics group called

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the Drama Queens.

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And that inspired me to take it up full

time.

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And then I turned from just somebody enjoy

putting makeup on, being a man in a dress.

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It was an evolution and then I became a

drug week.

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And 15 years later, she's still doing it.

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Amazing.

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Good way back then.

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Oh yeah, yeah.

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Here goes my name.

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How about you Harry or Shagami Mary?

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You can call me everyone darling.

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Someone's calling me.

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So I started doing a lockdown.

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Before lockdown happened, I was a dancer

on cruise ships for like five years.

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And then the pandemic put a halt to that

because nothing could happen.

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So I basically came home and was like, I'm

over dancing on cruise ships.

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I wanted to try something else.

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And I've always been a huge fan of drag

and thought, well, I'll just give it a go.

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Screw it.

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Let's try it.

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So I spent most of lockdown watching

tutorials.

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learning about drag, going to see these

two wonderful people here.

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I saw many shows, you too.

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I believe we worked together.

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Yes, we have.

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Yeah, we have.

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Watching and learning from what the queens

are doing on the scene and kind of molding

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myself and, you know, taking bits and

pieces from everywhere, like a jigsaw and

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kind of figuring out what I wanted to do

and just taking inspiration from

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everywhere and I do it because not to like

keep it on brand, but you know, it's Super

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Mario takes a magic mushroom or like, he

gets big.

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That's how I feel.

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When I do drag, like it's like I've taken

like that super mushroom or that superstar

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and you're just living your best life.

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So I do it because nothing compares to

that feeling when you're on stage and

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drag, like nothing compares to it.

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So that's why I do it and how I got into

it.

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And Stephanie.

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So for me, I started 12 years ago this

year.

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I was mentored by a drag queen called Bet

Rinse.

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And I did a guest spots at halfway to

heaven every Tuesday.

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My first residency was at the Adbal Duncan

in Soho.

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Mitchie have gone from there.

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Then I moved to Brighton, did a guest spot

at the Queens arms with Cosmic.

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And it all kind of evolved from that

point.

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And yeah, I mean, it's an honor to give

back to the scene as well, because what we

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do is we have an open mic night at the

Marine Tavern every Sunday, which

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encourages new artists to come and have a

go, just do it and.

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If it works, it works.

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If it doesn't just keep on going.

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And for me, I think drag is obviously a

complete art form in itself.

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The message that you can leave a crowd

with is always very powerful because you

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should always utilize your own voice and

carry that forward.

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Thanks for bringing your voices to our

show.

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In case some of our listeners, and they

might, because we know some of our

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listeners, don't have a clue what drag is.

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Here is a very brief history.

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Drag actually started as a necessity

centuries ago when plays needed female

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characters, but they were played by men.

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God forbid women should be allowed to

perform for a liling in the 17th century.

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In fact, it's thought to be called drag

because of the long dresses worn by the

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actors and their dresses dragged on the

ground.

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The times have changed and thank goodness

that this is now an art form, not female

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impersonation.

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And it's a whole lot more than that.

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And it's adored now in the mainstream and

there's a staple of the entertainment

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offering within hospitality venues across

the UK.

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So we've talked about history, but what is

drag for you?

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And I'm going to start with Stephanie.

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So drag for me, I touched on it briefly

earlier on, like Mary said, as well.

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It's very electric, that feeling when you

have on stage, if you know that you have a

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room he was engaging with you, there's no

better feeling.

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I think one of my

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favorite moments actually is when it comes

to I say festivals, but pride, because

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it's the message behind everything.

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And, you know, again, you have to push

that message to everyone and I'm not

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pushing it in forcing it upon someone.

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It's giant.

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Yes.

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And it's, and it's just the respect behind

everything and making sure everyone's

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included.

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I can't see myself doing anything else

now.

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It's great.

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I mean, 12 years in, I'll be like 80s, you

know, I'll last that long, but you know,

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who knows?

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A change now, isn't it?

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Well, you know, you know, you know.

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And no offence, Linda.

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Wait, you know.

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Says the 50 year old wild card in the

room.

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What are you, Harry?

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I'm Mary.

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Ethan's fine, darling.

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I think drag for me is just expression.

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And whether that's expression of gender,

whether that's expression of arts, whether

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that's expression of creativity, to me, I

don't think drag has one definition.

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I think it's evolved.

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so exponentially now that there isn't, you

can't define what it actually is.

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I know obviously you touched on what

you're saying about what it used to mean

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or in theory used to mean back then, but I

just think like, to me it is just

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expression and it's whether, whatever that

encapsulates, whatever you want that to

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mean in your own drag, that to me is drag.

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You know, you can get glamorous queens,

their whole thing is pageant style of

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drag, you can get gender non-conforming

drag, you can get...

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To me, everything is drag really.

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Like, I know not to quote RuPaul, but all

born naked and the rest is drag.

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That to me actually really resonates

because everything is like, everything is

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just, we put on clothing and we fit, you

know, you express yourself in what you're

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wearing now.

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Every one of us is expressing something.

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So to me that is drag.

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Yeah, it's just expression of everything.

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Is that famous saying all drag is valid?

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Correct.

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I agree.

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And I love that word expression as well.

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because everyone can express themselves.

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Exactly.

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There's no right or wrong.

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Exactly.

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It's just how you express yourself.

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And drag is just like in the traditional

sense of it, it's just exaggerated

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expression.

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But it is an art form of 12.

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Absolutely.

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An art form of, and it's having, you know,

it's a form of expression.

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Yeah.

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An individual.

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So Linda, you've done this for 15 years,

Slemmon, you've done this for 12.

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Have you seen the drag scene change over

the last decade or so?

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Definitely evolved.

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definitely changed for the better, I

think, because we started before RuPaul's

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Drag Race came along.

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And now it's encouraged a lot of people,

because it's been in the mainstream a lot

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more, to do it.

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And I think that can only be a positive

thing.

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To have the courage to even get on a stage

and to be inspired or influenced by other

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people, certainly now.

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And years ago, there were matriarchs who

paved the way, and that should never be

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forgotten either.

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So it's different times, but again, there

are queens who have done it for years who

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will always help newer artists like myself

and others, give it back, help and

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encourage because if you don't, it'll go.

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Yeah.

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I mean for myself, I'm a child of the 70s

and I was brought up watching the likes of

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the two Ronnies and Littlen and Large and

Les Dawson, Larry Grayson.

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Some of them were quite bad gay

stereotypes because of the climate.

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the legal climate there was then, but

there was also a lot, you know, so Kenneth

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Williams, there was also a lot of, uh,

just circulation and, uh, you know,

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exaggeration, pomp and ceremony where I

got my inspirations from was watching all

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that sort of laughter, variety,

expression.

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And then that took me on a journey when I

was a DJ in my twenties and in my youth.

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And then that went on to me in my thirties

learning about drag, you know, I'm now 50,

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where I started and I look at the pardon

if this sounds condescending, it's not

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meant to an end.

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I see the new age of drag now.

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There's an old school, there's a new

school, there's a new school, there's an

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old school.

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There might be those queens from an older

generation such as myself, some more

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established than others, that will

criticize the young style of drag.

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All the new schools, shall we say.

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But I know that it's an evolution.

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Love or hate.

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RuPaul's Drag Race, but it inspires

people.

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And as long as somebody takes something

from it and makes it their own, if you

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copy it, you copy it and just put a

lipstick on a mime to a Whitney Houston

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song and think, drag queen, that's not my

thing.

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But if you take something from it, make it

your own and you're inspired from it and

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then you perform and you can entertain.

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I'm all for that.

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That's the art and the creativity.

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Really incredible, isn't it?

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And I think the normalising of the

acceptance as well, I think.

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One of the best things that I've seen just

in my personal life was my nephew.

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Absolutely loved Dracarys when it came

out.

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He was about eight at the time.

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And it got to the point where when it came

on the telly when it was on Saturdays or

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whatever, he would literally run to mum's

closet, get a pair of high heels and

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around the living room while it was on.

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Which I think is the most beautiful thing

because if you think back to, you know,

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when you were young, Flynn, would boys

have been able to do that?

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Obviously, I mean, this is an audio

experience, but occasionally on my

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Facebook, there's a picture of me when I

was eight years old and Stephen Hymne was

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seeing me when I was eight years old and

my next door neighbor dressed me in her

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dress.

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Is it a balloon?

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00:11:41,324 --> 00:11:44,646

Ray and Judy Garland pinny on and

whatever.

236

00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:47,188

It's really flock wallpaper behind me.

237

00:11:47,188 --> 00:11:48,889

It's very sort of 1979.

238

00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:51,832

That's the only one that's got me in a

trip.

239

00:11:51,832 --> 00:11:56,435

I can pitch in this gallery as a postcard.

240

00:11:56,435 --> 00:11:57,356

That sounds amazing.

241

00:11:57,356 --> 00:11:58,356

What an image.

242

00:11:58,597 --> 00:11:59,718

Amazing.

243

00:11:59,858 --> 00:12:04,621

How did the lockdown affect you and how

did you survive during this period?

244

00:12:07,998 --> 00:12:13,519

Undoubtedly, the COVID-19 pandemic posed

major challenges for performers worldwide.

245

00:12:13,839 --> 00:12:18,521

How did the lockdown affect you and how

did you survive during this period when

246

00:12:18,521 --> 00:12:19,561

going to marry?

247

00:12:20,061 --> 00:12:24,743

I was addicted to TikTok.

248

00:12:24,743 --> 00:12:26,844

I just use that as a bit of an outlet.

249

00:12:26,844 --> 00:12:28,664

I used to just do home workouts.

250

00:12:28,664 --> 00:12:30,965

That's when I kind of started dabbling

into drag as well.

251

00:12:30,965 --> 00:12:32,906

So I kind of used social media for that.

252

00:12:32,906 --> 00:12:35,708

I drank my own body weighting wine every

day.

253

00:12:35,708 --> 00:12:38,130

Just been watched so much TV.

254

00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:41,574

Yeah, I mean, for me, I just kind of, it

was the time that I was experimenting with

255

00:12:41,574 --> 00:12:41,894

drag.

256

00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:44,677

So a lot of my time in COVID was focused

on that.

257

00:12:44,677 --> 00:12:48,500

So if the pandemic didn't happen, do you

think you'd have had the opportunity to

258

00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:49,081

focus on drag?

259

00:12:49,081 --> 00:12:50,082

I don't think so.

260

00:12:50,082 --> 00:12:53,505

I honestly don't think so because I think

I was in the cruise ship career mind.

261

00:12:53,505 --> 00:12:56,688

So it was just contract after contract,

after contract, after contract.

262

00:12:56,688 --> 00:12:59,089

I don't think it would have happened.

263

00:12:59,122 --> 00:13:00,043

I've always had a love for it.

264

00:13:00,043 --> 00:13:02,665

I just don't think I've had time to solely

focus on it.

265

00:13:02,665 --> 00:13:04,066

So who knows?

266

00:13:04,066 --> 00:13:06,568

I just don't think it would have.

267

00:13:06,568 --> 00:13:07,449

Why you guys?

268

00:13:07,449 --> 00:13:08,309

Ladies.

269

00:13:10,832 --> 00:13:14,015

So for me, it was a bit of a surreal time.

270

00:13:14,015 --> 00:13:16,116

I lived above a pub at the time.

271

00:13:16,156 --> 00:13:18,738

So we were literally locked in there for

that all of lockdown.

272

00:13:18,859 --> 00:13:21,841

That was quite weird, but luckily we had a

rooftop.

273

00:13:22,242 --> 00:13:25,785

So we can literally like get a bit of

space.

274

00:13:25,785 --> 00:13:26,978

I remember once we were like,

275

00:13:26,978 --> 00:13:30,240

peeping out the windows if you're watching

TV downstairs having a roast dinner being

276

00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,181

like, oh my God, I'm just going to know

we're in here.

277

00:13:32,181 --> 00:13:38,225

That was really crazy.

278

00:13:38,225 --> 00:13:41,067

And I did quite a few online shows.

279

00:13:41,067 --> 00:13:44,690

I got involved with the Drag Choir that

thanked the NHS workers.

280

00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:45,450

That was really good.

281

00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:47,712

A lot of pre-recorded stuff was done.

282

00:13:47,772 --> 00:13:52,055

I had the police called on me twice whilst

doing online shows because we were allowed

283

00:13:52,055 --> 00:13:53,736

to have a smoke machine blaring.

284

00:13:53,736 --> 00:13:55,037

I don't know why, but I pressed it.

285

00:13:55,037 --> 00:13:56,197

I was a bit too...

286

00:13:56,270 --> 00:14:01,372

ego and then I opened the door, it was

like stars in your eyes coming out.

287

00:14:01,372 --> 00:14:03,093

Yeah, it was very weird.

288

00:14:03,434 --> 00:14:07,356

But it was a time to get proactive.

289

00:14:07,356 --> 00:14:10,838

Certainly, you know, if things came along,

I'd jump at it.

290

00:14:10,838 --> 00:14:12,879

Raising money online, like trying to

survive.

291

00:14:12,879 --> 00:14:13,479

It wasn't great.

292

00:14:13,479 --> 00:14:16,461

I got the self-employment grants, all of

them.

293

00:14:16,461 --> 00:14:18,222

Luckily others didn't.

294

00:14:18,222 --> 00:14:21,163

It was very, very stressful trying to even

apply for that.

295

00:14:21,163 --> 00:14:23,304

But I was very grateful that I could get

it.

296

00:14:23,685 --> 00:14:24,765

It was crazy.

297

00:14:25,398 --> 00:14:27,361

you know, we got through it and...

298

00:14:27,361 --> 00:14:27,982

Came out very quickly.

299

00:14:27,982 --> 00:14:28,903

Yes, absolutely.

300

00:14:28,903 --> 00:14:29,244

Yeah.

301

00:14:29,244 --> 00:14:36,075

I mean, I think it was a chance to

re-evaluate and just horrendous for other

302

00:14:36,075 --> 00:14:37,857

workers, let alone performers.

303

00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:40,481

It feels just about back to normal.

304

00:14:42,262 --> 00:14:45,463

Before American listeners, because we do

have some, what are self-employment

305

00:14:45,463 --> 00:14:46,424

grants?

306

00:14:46,684 --> 00:14:50,686

So self-employment grants, basically it

was like a loan that you were going to pay

307

00:14:50,686 --> 00:14:57,490

back for sub-employed performers to

survive for living costs, food costs,

308

00:14:57,490 --> 00:14:58,190

whatever.

309

00:14:58,190 --> 00:15:03,053

And I think they were basing on different

salaries that you would submit for your

310

00:15:03,053 --> 00:15:03,933

tax return.

311

00:15:03,933 --> 00:15:06,435

And that's how they were basing what they

were giving out to people.

312

00:15:06,435 --> 00:15:10,757

Well, two sides to our employment before

and during lockdown.

313

00:15:10,757 --> 00:15:11,466

So.

314

00:15:11,466 --> 00:15:16,067

since moving down here, as well as doing

bits and pieces of drag at weekends, some

315

00:15:16,067 --> 00:15:19,488

bits in Brighton and some bits out of

Brighton.

316

00:15:19,488 --> 00:15:23,589

I was also a carer through the early

liberal dementia and actually worked in a

317

00:15:23,589 --> 00:15:26,990

care facility nearby here in Brighton, New

South 6th.

318

00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:34,752

With the two main parts of UK's COVID,

shall I say, in between the two, my

319

00:15:34,752 --> 00:15:39,293

husband worked at the NHS, so he couldn't

work in his environment.

320

00:15:39,293 --> 00:15:40,566

He was a manager.

321

00:15:40,566 --> 00:15:42,466

data procurement up in London.

322

00:15:42,486 --> 00:15:48,268

So he had to work from home and I was

working in a care home and all of a sudden

323

00:15:48,268 --> 00:15:53,209

I had to stop working in a care home

because sadly my husband passed away.

324

00:15:53,229 --> 00:15:58,511

It was and still is a bit of a journey,

but what it will save for drag for me

325

00:15:58,651 --> 00:16:02,972

during the second half, you know, I've

always been quite technically minded and I

326

00:16:02,972 --> 00:16:07,073

bought a green screen and when we were

allowed to even step around and we, we

327

00:16:07,073 --> 00:16:08,173

would do these.

328

00:16:08,462 --> 00:16:12,784

Skype, but something, you know, these sort

of online chats and then I'd upload them

329

00:16:12,784 --> 00:16:18,167

on Facebook with certain tracks, you know,

Warner Chapel music and all that kind of

330

00:16:18,167 --> 00:16:18,287

thing.

331

00:16:18,287 --> 00:16:22,670

For me, what I'm coming out of it

actually, from somebody who's still coming

332

00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:26,352

out the other end, but still suffering

grief of what I've found of the drag for

333

00:16:26,352 --> 00:16:29,433

me, not a facade, but it empowers me.

334

00:16:29,433 --> 00:16:33,396

It gives me a chance to know what I do

actually, makes me feel better about

335

00:16:33,396 --> 00:16:37,417

myself and if I can entertain other

people, then all the better.

336

00:16:37,458 --> 00:16:40,620

I think also whilst doing the online

shows, a lot of people were commenting

337

00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:43,142

saying like, thank you for getting us

through, thank you for helping.

338

00:16:43,142 --> 00:16:47,106

Like it was a distraction for them just to

watch something because it got a little

339

00:16:47,106 --> 00:16:48,607

bit mundane, didn't it?

340

00:16:48,607 --> 00:16:50,389

Like just sat in them doors all the time.

341

00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:53,892

And then when they said you allowed

certain amounts of exercise, I mean...

342

00:16:53,892 --> 00:16:59,176

Let them go for a walk.

343

00:16:59,176 --> 00:17:01,257

Yes, let's jog on the spot.

344

00:17:03,682 --> 00:17:06,063

You're American listeners, obviously.

345

00:17:06,063 --> 00:17:09,764

Be very, very familiar with RuPaul's Drag

Race coming out of that.

346

00:17:09,764 --> 00:17:16,047

I mean, UK Season 1, I acted Molda Wanda's

paperwork filling in for Bag of Chicks.

347

00:17:16,047 --> 00:17:18,968

And then, no, this is an entirely true

story.

348

00:17:18,968 --> 00:17:21,029

Me and Bag go, oh, go way back.

349

00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:24,330

Not like that, but yes, we've been good

friends for a very long time.

350

00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:27,911

And then coming out of lockdown and

everything else, still having the green

351

00:17:27,911 --> 00:17:32,473

screen, I had the honor of being able to

record.

352

00:17:32,513 --> 00:17:33,214

Lovely.

353

00:17:33,214 --> 00:17:37,539

Miss Clit for season two and you got quite

far with that, didn't you?

354

00:17:37,539 --> 00:17:37,979

Yeah.

355

00:17:37,979 --> 00:17:38,500

Yes.

356

00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:39,280

Wow.

357

00:17:39,441 --> 00:17:40,682

I gave it a go.

358

00:17:40,682 --> 00:17:44,406

I'm a very trying woman.

359

00:17:50,914 --> 00:17:54,377

See, what I love about that is, we were

saying how things were quite repetitive.

360

00:17:54,726 --> 00:17:59,630

And you know, the TV we did watch, I mean,

we all completed Netflix, like it was

361

00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:01,051

gaming, I just watched everything.

362

00:18:01,051 --> 00:18:02,293

And there was no new TV being made.

363

00:18:02,293 --> 00:18:03,454

They just couldn't do it.

364

00:18:03,454 --> 00:18:06,796

But actually giving you guys that space to

then go on social media and create that

365

00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:11,720

content to bring, I mean, people like me,

basically just more of what I wanted.

366

00:18:12,862 --> 00:18:15,844

And loads of people felt like that, you

know, what we serve through the media

367

00:18:15,844 --> 00:18:17,566

generally, there was a cutoff point.

368

00:18:17,566 --> 00:18:21,009

There was a certain amount of what you can

watch, an amount of what's being made.

369

00:18:21,009 --> 00:18:21,970

But actually.

370

00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:26,493

You guys then had that space to fill the

gaps that all of us wanted, I think, which

371

00:18:26,513 --> 00:18:27,774

was a gift.

372

00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:31,197

It is quite nice because Facebook has the

memories thing, doesn't it?

373

00:18:31,197 --> 00:18:31,598

Yeah.

374

00:18:31,598 --> 00:18:35,381

So some of the videos that I did

throughout Lockdown often pop up now.

375

00:18:35,381 --> 00:18:38,904

And I'm like, gosh, like there was one

green screen thing we had.

376

00:18:38,904 --> 00:18:41,286

It was like, I was like running through a

bloody roller coaster.

377

00:18:41,286 --> 00:18:44,809

It was nuts, but it was, yeah, it's nice

to have those kind of memories to look

378

00:18:44,809 --> 00:18:45,709

back on as well.

379

00:18:45,709 --> 00:18:49,793

So the three of us here, we have a good

friend called Mrs.

380

00:18:49,793 --> 00:18:51,094

Moore, John Moore.

381

00:18:51,094 --> 00:18:53,194

He was the best man at my wedding,

ironically.

382

00:18:53,194 --> 00:18:55,275

Brother from another mother.

383

00:18:59,296 --> 00:19:02,577

Yeah, we go way back and it was his kind

of thing.

384

00:19:02,677 --> 00:19:05,798

Even though he didn't have all the tech

kind of stuff and he only had an iPhone,

385

00:19:05,798 --> 00:19:10,179

which I got hold for him and some sort of

bits and pieces, which Shally Vape,

386

00:19:10,179 --> 00:19:11,359

Brighton Queen would do.

387

00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:16,241

Basically, he would do this kimono thing

where pretty much only dressed in his

388

00:19:16,241 --> 00:19:18,521

empress new clothes and some underwear.

389

00:19:18,521 --> 00:19:19,601

He'd wear this.

390

00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:36,134

No, no, no

391

00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:52,351

If you were doing it legally, you could

actually get some money from it.

392

00:19:52,351 --> 00:19:55,053

But even if it wasn't about the money, it

was about the sanity.

393

00:19:55,053 --> 00:19:57,374

Even if you're insane to do it.

394

00:19:57,374 --> 00:20:00,556

It's quite hard as a performer when you

don't have an audience.

395

00:20:00,556 --> 00:20:02,177

Exactly, it's the worst thing I've seen.

396

00:20:02,357 --> 00:20:03,118

Yeah.

397

00:20:03,118 --> 00:20:03,878

Very two-dimensional.

398

00:20:03,878 --> 00:20:05,039

You get in your head a bit.

399

00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:06,299

Yeah.

400

00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:10,002

It's quite funny because obviously you're

playing different personalities when

401

00:20:10,002 --> 00:20:11,263

you're on stage.

402

00:20:11,263 --> 00:20:15,305

And when you're talking to a computer

screen, your other personality, talking to

403

00:20:15,305 --> 00:20:16,365

people who are...

404

00:20:16,374 --> 00:20:21,315

just watching, you can't gauge a reply,

you can't gauge a laughter.

405

00:20:21,875 --> 00:20:23,776

That energy is missing isn't it?

406

00:20:23,776 --> 00:20:27,617

I think it was nice when you saw the

reactions and people putting love hearts

407

00:20:27,617 --> 00:20:29,757

and engaging with you.

408

00:20:29,757 --> 00:20:34,399

And then you end up saying hello to

multiple people like, hello so and so.

409

00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:39,340

And then you're like, oh I should do a

song now.

410

00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:43,561

It's clear that all of you are not only

immensely talented, but also incredibly

411

00:20:43,561 --> 00:20:44,402

resilient.

412

00:20:44,402 --> 00:20:47,112

Your stories have been truly inspiring and

enlightening.

413

00:20:47,112 --> 00:20:48,857

So thank you for sharing that with us.

414

00:20:50,742 --> 00:20:53,702

What would people do to support their

local drag ads?

415

00:20:54,723 --> 00:20:59,444

I think to support local drag is to just

go see local drag.

416

00:20:59,444 --> 00:21:04,325

Obviously with the success of Drag Race,

everybody flocks to the Drag Race shows

417

00:21:04,325 --> 00:21:08,226

when these Drag Race queens are performing

and I go see them, they're great because

418

00:21:08,226 --> 00:21:09,707

they're still dragged.

419

00:21:09,707 --> 00:21:12,468

I'm intrigued to see what they can do off

of the show.

420

00:21:12,468 --> 00:21:16,869

But I think in terms of supporting local

queens is go and see local queens.

421

00:21:16,869 --> 00:21:19,629

Don't just flock to mainstream queens.

422

00:21:19,734 --> 00:21:24,816

This city is thankfully so rich with the

amount of drag that we have here.

423

00:21:24,916 --> 00:21:29,719

And you can go any night of the week here

in Brighton and to any of the bars and

424

00:21:29,719 --> 00:21:33,021

you'll see a drag show, whether it's a

bingo, whether it's a quiz, whether it's a

425

00:21:33,021 --> 00:21:34,401

full on cabaret.

426

00:21:34,561 --> 00:21:38,243

There's so much out there that you don't

need to just focus on the mainstream.

427

00:21:38,243 --> 00:21:41,725

Like, and I actually think this is

probably controversial, but I actually

428

00:21:41,725 --> 00:21:42,786

think it's better.

429

00:21:42,846 --> 00:21:47,348

I think a lot of the times just seeing

local drag is just better and seeing

430

00:21:47,348 --> 00:21:49,469

somebody that you've never heard of.

431

00:21:49,746 --> 00:21:52,287

you may never see again or you'll follow

them or whatever.

432

00:21:52,287 --> 00:21:53,708

I think that is the best thing.

433

00:21:53,708 --> 00:21:56,889

Like that is just, that to me is what true

British drag is.

434

00:21:56,889 --> 00:22:00,331

Like going to these pubs, going to these

nightclubs, seeing that, that to me is

435

00:22:00,331 --> 00:22:01,052

British drag.

436

00:22:01,052 --> 00:22:02,833

And, you know, I utilize social media.

437

00:22:02,833 --> 00:22:06,374

I know a lot of us do follow them on

social media, see what they're doing, buy

438

00:22:06,374 --> 00:22:10,857

merchandise, you know, if they stream a

song or release a song, go and, you know,

439

00:22:10,857 --> 00:22:12,337

support in that way.

440

00:22:12,338 --> 00:22:15,519

But I think the main thing is to just go

and see them.

441

00:22:15,639 --> 00:22:16,260

And talk to us.

442

00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:17,480

We all talk after shows.

443

00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,201

Yeah.

444

00:22:18,201 --> 00:22:19,901

We all talk and we're not.

445

00:22:19,926 --> 00:22:23,327

I don't think anyone here in the city

particularly is a diva that's done and

446

00:22:23,327 --> 00:22:23,788

that's it.

447

00:22:23,788 --> 00:22:24,628

And then they walk off.

448

00:22:24,628 --> 00:22:26,249

We probably are all pissed with you after.

449

00:22:26,249 --> 00:22:30,191

We're about to be on it.

450

00:22:30,191 --> 00:22:31,652

No, and I think that's another thing.

451

00:22:31,652 --> 00:22:33,073

Don't be afraid to talk to us.

452

00:22:33,073 --> 00:22:34,854

Like we're not monsters.

453

00:22:34,854 --> 00:22:37,835

Like come in with human beings and talk to

us.

454

00:22:37,835 --> 00:22:39,196

We're exactly the same as you.

455

00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:43,158

Like, I think it is, like you say, just

encouraging everyone and like going to see

456

00:22:43,158 --> 00:22:43,678

people.

457

00:22:43,678 --> 00:22:49,161

And obviously the venues that we perform

in needs an audience.

458

00:22:49,161 --> 00:22:49,901

So.

459

00:22:50,322 --> 00:22:55,103

use it or lose it because once venues

start going and artists can't perform,

460

00:22:56,344 --> 00:22:56,744

what can we do?

461

00:22:56,744 --> 00:22:58,285

Yeah, we're in a central cog in the wheel.

462

00:22:58,285 --> 00:22:59,586

Yeah, yeah.

463

00:22:59,586 --> 00:23:01,066

A cog in the wheel, a cog in the machine.

464

00:23:01,066 --> 00:23:03,407

Yeah, yeah.

465

00:23:03,407 --> 00:23:09,190

And entertainment, whether it be drag,

singers, bands, does bring in crowds.

466

00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:09,290

Yeah.

467

00:23:09,290 --> 00:23:12,891

If people are spending, it helps the venue

out and it helps the artists out.

468

00:23:12,891 --> 00:23:14,732

And we do it so well, don't we, as a

nation?

469

00:23:14,732 --> 00:23:17,653

I always think that whenever I go and see

something live, not something that's, you

470

00:23:17,653 --> 00:23:18,110

know,

471

00:23:18,110 --> 00:23:21,633

necessarily big stadium vibe, but whenever

I go to something that's fairly local or

472

00:23:21,633 --> 00:23:22,693

just at a theatre, I'm like, we're so

good.

473

00:23:22,693 --> 00:23:26,617

Yeah, we're so good at it.

474

00:23:26,617 --> 00:23:28,498

And the diversity of it as well.

475

00:23:28,498 --> 00:23:30,240

Oh yeah, absolutely.

476

00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,042

I mean, I love a festival vibe, but

there's nothing better than going to a

477

00:23:33,042 --> 00:23:39,247

very intimate space to see a show that it

feels like you have more of a connection.

478

00:23:39,247 --> 00:23:43,891

It's nice, it's really nice, you know, and

you feel something and that's great.

479

00:23:43,891 --> 00:23:46,774

I've known sign language for about 20

years.

480

00:23:46,774 --> 00:23:53,395

And I recently had the opportunity through

just signing a number in a drag show a few

481

00:23:53,395 --> 00:23:54,796

years ago, pre-COVID.

482

00:23:54,796 --> 00:23:57,577

And then somebody said, Oh, would you do

Worthing Pride?

483

00:23:57,577 --> 00:23:58,737

Would you do Seaford Pride?

484

00:23:58,737 --> 00:24:00,137

Would you do Southampton Pride?

485

00:24:00,137 --> 00:24:01,098

Great young.

486

00:24:01,098 --> 00:24:03,018

So now I'm actually a signer.

487

00:24:03,018 --> 00:24:04,979

I do it in drag most of the time.

488

00:24:04,979 --> 00:24:06,239

It's so casual.

489

00:24:06,239 --> 00:24:08,140

And I love doing it.

490

00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:14,341

And that was actually one of the things

that helped me, should we say, mentally.

491

00:24:15,586 --> 00:24:18,087

disability inclusivity basis.

492

00:24:18,087 --> 00:24:22,410

I'm epileptic and for me to, I'm stood on

the stage and it wouldn't, if you've got a

493

00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:26,914

huge field of people wouldn't matter

whether it was three people or 300 that

494

00:24:26,914 --> 00:24:30,996

were deaf and ambitio or hard of hearing

in, you know, in that field.

495

00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:34,759

I was at Southampton once and I was doing

Bad to the Devil You Know by Kylie and

496

00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:35,720

sign language.

497

00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,143

And then I spot it because of their body

language, three deaf gay chaps, the corner

498

00:24:40,143 --> 00:24:42,925

and they're going, I'm illustrating with

my hands.

499

00:24:44,174 --> 00:24:47,636

thank you for enjoying yourselves and

British Sign Language to me.

500

00:24:47,677 --> 00:24:52,241

Shortly after bereavement I suffered, I

was just, I had to go stage-fighting this

501

00:24:52,241 --> 00:24:53,903

kind of thing, pulling my own self.

502

00:24:53,903 --> 00:24:58,046

And if something like, the gift that I've

got, whether it be doing Dragon singing

503

00:24:58,046 --> 00:25:02,070

songs or whether doing Dragon signing to

them, if something I can do gives

504

00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:06,934

something back, they'll appreciate what we

all do at home.

505

00:25:07,455 --> 00:25:09,197

It's fulfilling.

506

00:25:09,197 --> 00:25:10,537

It really is fulfilling.

507

00:25:12,182 --> 00:25:13,562

One more question for you, though.

508

00:25:13,562 --> 00:25:15,082

Do you ever embellish?

509

00:25:15,122 --> 00:25:17,583

Do you directly translate or do you add a

few extras?

510

00:25:17,583 --> 00:25:22,124

No, depending on context, I might have to

find a keyword and build around.

511

00:25:22,124 --> 00:25:27,206

You know, I was going to say find context,

but no, I mean, it's only a family event.

512

00:25:29,287 --> 00:25:34,428

There are certain V words and C words and

other words that we couldn't possibly

513

00:25:34,428 --> 00:25:36,609

mention on air, let alone in a field.

514

00:25:40,962 --> 00:25:42,943

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

515

00:25:42,943 --> 00:25:46,706

It's really important, but we do know that

there are people listening that might

516

00:25:46,706 --> 00:25:51,449

still construct me, might be going through

some difficult situation themselves.

517

00:25:51,449 --> 00:25:54,031

What advice would you give to them?

518

00:25:54,031 --> 00:25:56,673

I want to start with you, my right wing

and you being Mary.

519

00:25:56,673 --> 00:25:59,976

Find something joyful every single day.

520

00:25:59,976 --> 00:26:05,540

Find joy in something, whether it's, I

don't know, cutting your nails.

521

00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:07,618

I don't care whether it's like, I don't

know.

522

00:26:07,618 --> 00:26:12,019

having a shower, find the joy in at least

one thing you do every day.

523

00:26:12,019 --> 00:26:17,720

And if you start to build on that as like

a daily manifestation, it will translate

524

00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,161

to a free day life.

525

00:26:19,161 --> 00:26:25,142

So find something that makes you happy,

that brings you joy, something you love.

526

00:26:25,303 --> 00:26:27,643

Whether, you know, you're the type of

person that being charitable makes you

527

00:26:27,643 --> 00:26:31,344

happy and you want to give back to

something or someone, whatever it is, it

528

00:26:31,344 --> 00:26:35,745

can be so mind you, just find joy every

single day and

529

00:26:35,902 --> 00:26:38,642

it will manifest into such a bigger thing.

530

00:26:38,682 --> 00:26:41,503

It's something about positivity, I think.

531

00:26:41,503 --> 00:26:45,324

No matter what hardships you face at the

end of the day, you find something you're

532

00:26:45,324 --> 00:26:50,646

good at or find something that interests

you, take it, harness it, and just hold

533

00:26:50,646 --> 00:26:56,167

onto it and feed off of it, but to know

this can make me feel better about myself.

534

00:26:56,267 --> 00:26:59,008

And that's what I do every day.

535

00:26:59,008 --> 00:27:01,809

I'd always say never feel like you're

alone.

536

00:27:01,809 --> 00:27:04,169

Always make sure you have good people

around you.

537

00:27:04,478 --> 00:27:08,860

always communicate where you can, always

remember that things always will get

538

00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:09,740

better.

539

00:27:10,021 --> 00:27:14,363

If you have a positive outlook, it's like

when you talk and you smile, you have that

540

00:27:14,383 --> 00:27:16,204

automatic response.

541

00:27:16,364 --> 00:27:20,946

If you just have that positive attitude,

things will always happen for the good.

542

00:27:21,267 --> 00:27:24,108

That's my philosophy and I always stick by

it.

543

00:27:24,108 --> 00:27:25,569

Positiveity is key.

544

00:27:25,569 --> 00:27:26,770

Negativeity never helps.

545

00:27:26,770 --> 00:27:32,853

I know, and as much as sometimes some

people, they can find it hard to find

546

00:27:32,853 --> 00:27:34,026

positivity.

547

00:27:34,026 --> 00:27:39,370

look around, look around you, you know,

find inspiration at the end of the day.

548

00:27:39,370 --> 00:27:40,851

Life's too short.

549

00:27:40,851 --> 00:27:42,272

And we all have off days.

550

00:27:42,272 --> 00:27:45,115

That's just human nature, but just always.

551

00:27:45,115 --> 00:27:46,296

Don't make it all the time.

552

00:27:46,296 --> 00:27:53,862

There's one popular drag queen says, can I

get an amen up in here?

553

00:27:53,862 --> 00:27:56,124

Your passion for the art of drag is

infectious.

554

00:27:56,124 --> 00:27:58,566

So thank you all for sharing your

experiences and for adding a touch of

555

00:27:58,566 --> 00:28:01,128

glamour and glitter to our show today.

556

00:28:01,128 --> 00:28:02,589

We did, we did have someone in drag

earlier.

557

00:28:02,589 --> 00:28:03,809

That's why we're saying.

558

00:28:07,063 --> 00:28:08,644

Mary was looking way fabulous.

559

00:28:08,644 --> 00:28:10,125

Yes, I am now.

560

00:28:10,125 --> 00:28:11,606

Putting a sword to shame.

561

00:28:11,606 --> 00:28:12,186

Still fabulous.

562

00:28:12,186 --> 00:28:17,429

And there's Ninja and I like Death Becomes

her.

563

00:28:19,390 --> 00:28:23,712

Thank you, Flynn, Harry and Stephen for

joining us on this episode.

564

00:28:23,853 --> 00:28:28,255

And a huge thank you to our listeners for

tuning in to Talking Hospitality with two

565

00:28:28,255 --> 00:28:29,696

T's and a catelle.

566

00:28:29,776 --> 00:28:33,158

We hope you enjoyed this journey into the

world of drag as much as we did.

567

00:28:33,314 --> 00:28:37,883

Don't forget to subscribe on your

favourite podcast platform and leave a

568

00:28:37,883 --> 00:28:42,733

review if it's nice and join us next time

as we continue to explore all things

569

00:28:42,733 --> 00:28:43,675

hospitality.

570

00:28:43,675 --> 00:28:45,037

Stay fabulous.