Can Hospitality Recruitment Survive Another Crisis?

Gary, you started your journey as a chef before stepping into recruitment.

Growing up, I used to stay in a hotel. Got this real passion for hospitality.

How's spending time behind the pass helping spot great hospitality talent?

If I go all the way back in my career, my dream is to be a freshman footballer. I was never going to be good enough.

If people are struggling right now or they're worrying about what might be coming up in the future, is there any advice that you would give them?

You don't get anything without hard work. Things will change, things will get better.

The voices, you know, Timothy, Tracy and Joe on the show. From front of house to chefs on the line, every voice can shape the future each time.

Welcome. So first team steward for Arsenal and Tottenham Hots.Tottenham Hotspur introduced Angela Hartnett to the smart group, Tier one caterers for London Olympics.Your board member for ace, the association of Catering Excellence fundraising board member for Springboard, trustee of the Kevin Campbell foundation on the pitch at Everton and Arsenal last week and this week talking to about 100, 000 people over the two weeks. And you're the owner of Collins King & Associates.

So, Gary, jump in.

Nailed it.

Do you know? He did. You did. You're so seen this.

I'm so hot, though.

Did you know I've got an interesting fact, Joe, about Gary. One, he knows everybody in hospitality.

Everybody.

If he doesn't know you, you ain't worth knowing.

It's because I'm old and I've been in the business for some for long.

So he's got a reputation for literally knowing everybody. And then when I said he didn't know me, I got a phone call the next day and he was in front of me with a coffee. Nice to meet you again, Gary.

Thank you very much. Really happy to be here.

Yes, Gary, you started your journey as a chef before stepping into recruitment. How spending time behind the past helped you to spot great hospitality talent?And has it given you, like a sixth sense for knowing who's going to succeed?

If I go all the way back in my career, my dreams to be a professional footballer, I was never going to be good enough. My late father used to travel with the Tottenham Hotspur team in the 70s. So growing up, I used to stay in hotels.I got this real passion for hospitality. Studied to be a chef, did hotel management while I was studying at college.I was traveling away with my father and the Tottenham team and I got chatting to the person that did the food for the teams and he was off traveling around the world and he said, do you want My job. And it really went from there. So I started traveling with Tottenham, preparing food for their players management when they traveled.After a couple of years, I got asked if I'd like to travel with Arsenal as well. So I'd be away with one team one week, away with one team the next.I was working also as a chef in London, but in the 80s the money was poor, the food was pretty poor as well. So I looked to come out and I ended up going into recruitment. I joined the company Blue Arrow in 1987.They were opening a new office in Enfield and I joined them as a junior and worked my way through. And that also allowed me at the time to be able to travel with the football clubs, cooking at the weekend.So I was working full time in recruitment, hospitality recruitment and then cooking with.

The clubs at the weekend.

I spent three years with Blue Arrow, ended up going on from there to join a headhunting company that were launching in the UK.They were based in Hong Kong, so I trained with them, went out traveling, went out to Hong Kong and Thailand, trained with them, was with them for just under a year, but got made redundant in December 1990. And I went to an agent that put me forward to a couple of agencies.They put me forward to Reed, who were forming a new hospitality recruitment division, and they put me forward to what was Alfred Marks at the time. And I ended up joining Reed and my. My sort of journey in London. Recruitment really started from there.Reid had formed a new business which they called Reed Catering Recruitment and we had an office in Victoria. I took over as manager of the office, ended up getting promoted into an area role, operations and it.By 1999, we had five London offices and I always wanted to do my own thing, but if you cut me in half, I was Reed through and through. I bled the company colours, but Reid would never give me the opportunity I really wanted.And one of the reasons I joined them was a chance to become a director and run a division.I'd moved up so far in Blue Arrow, but I could see how Blue Arrow Catering had progressed and I thought I could do the same thing with Reed, but it wasn't to be. They didn't feel I was old material, maybe. Right.

I'm a bit of a maverick. Yeah.

I left in the summer of 1999 to set up Collins, King and Associates with my business partner, Matt Collins, who worked with me. We built the business up, had a partnership deal in Dubai.We opened an office in Melbourne in Australia, and we grew the business up until the financial crash. In 2008, Matthew decided I'd actually set him up with his partner, who became his wife. She wanted to emigrate in 2000. In 2011, I bought 2012.I bought Matthew out and then ran Collins King up until early 2020. Obviously, the pandemic hit. It was a brutal time for permanent recruitment. I was actually away with my partner, Kay. We were in Cape Town on holiday.My partner, Kay, worked for British Airways. She was their global head of recruitment.We were sitting in Cape Town having dinner and her phone rang and this was 28th of February 2020 and the company were calling an emergency meeting and from there we got on the first plane back to the UK. I landed on the 1st of March, went straight to my office from what I'd gained from my partner, told me this was serious.I phoned a couple of my clients, I phoned some colleagues and said, this is more serious what's going to hit the UK. And, yeah, within three weeks we'd shut the door and ended up handing the keys back to my landlord. And, yeah, a real tough time, real tough time.But one of my clients, the Smart Group, I've been involved, gentleman called Greg Lawson, who set the company up, phenomenal guy. He is my friend, mentor, he's done more for me than anyone in the industry.He'd set up to deliver food to the hospitals because all the hospital catering was closed. He'd set up with Angela Hartnett. Obviously, Angela's restaurants were closed.Angela Hartnett has her own restaurant but she also consults with Smart Group. That's another story. I'd introduced Angela Hartnett to smart group in 2008 and she went on to take Smart.They won the London Olympic contract and said, go, I'll come on, I'll come on to that. But, yeah, Angela was partnered with Smart to set up as a number of the celebrity chefs did.Their restaurants were closed to deliver food to hospitals. And I ended up driving, delivering food round to hospitals across London. Yeah, we needed another driver. I'd got to know.In 2008, I got to know Ed Vokes, who had worked for Blue Arrow, and Ed had gone on to form a company called Evolve Hospitality. Ed and I become friends. I ended up phoning him and said, look, we need another driver, would you be interested?He ended up driving up and we ended up talking. And since buying out Matthew Collins In 2012, I run the business as the sole key director.I had another director, Martin Smith, who worked me, who was brilliant as well. The business and everything ultimately fell on me and giving the Three months driving I did. Delivering food around really got me a chance to think.I ended up chatting with Ed and we. We ended up coming together. And also at the same time, a new business was formed.When the pandemic hit, a lot of the agencies let all their temporary staff go. Ed was very loyal to the temps he'd had working for him and he said, no, we're going to furlough.And he furloughed a huge amount of temps and within a few weeks the government were contacting agencies, trying to get temporary stuff. A lot of the agencies didn't have them. Evolve had them.So a new brand was born, Enhanced, that's now operated by Claire Downs, who already work for the business, so she operates that brand. Ed runs Evolve with his temporary staff into the business.Our enhanced brand, when it was formed in the pandemic, that was DBS cleared staff for schools, colleges, hospitals. That brand has been really successful.He's growing nicely and it enabled the whole thing, enabled me to save Collins King and Associates, which I did, and the rest is history. We've managed to regrow and we're in it. We're in a good place.

It's great news. It's great news to hear of people who survived that period like I didn't.Real competitors, not really, but I'm always pleased that people did make it through. One of the reasons why you're here for this episode is we're going through another crisis. Five years on, it's not looking so great. You're a survivor.If people are struggling right now or they're worrying about what might be coming up in the future, is there any advice that you would give them again?

I've been in recruitment since 1987 now, and I've seen the first crash went through the financial crash in 2000-1980-1989-1990 were tough, interest rates went up. 1991, A lot of agencies went bust then. It was a real tough time. We then move on to 2008, another tough time for agencies and hospitality overall.And then if you look at what happened after that with Brexit, we've been through so much as a country and an industry has been through so much. What the government have thrown at us now is not easy. The 10% increase on NI etc and the reduction in rate relief for the.For operators on the high street, that's hard. But I'm an eternal optimist and I do believe this is another phase. And hospitality is a resilient business, It's a resilient industry.

Sorry.

And I do believe we'll come through it. And those survive, those that work. It's about hard work. We don't get anything without hard work.But if you, in our industry, if you've got the contacts, you provide good service, you go out and work, things will change, things will get better.

Yeah, for sure. I'm with you on that. I'm an eternal optimist. I can't help myself. Like, I think that, yeah, I think there, there is going to be ways through it.I'm borrowing a term from Zig Zigler here, but we all know someone who's gone bust in good times and we all know people who have got examples with, who made their fortunes in hard times. Like the opportunities are going to be there. But it's. I think the priority is going to be to just throwing out the rule book. Not that for me.

I think so. And I think there's a question on that, if I may, to sort of build on that is because obviously you've been doing this since 1999. Right? Recruitment.How is like recruitment changed? How has it changed over since 1999 to now? And where do you think it's headed? Because I think that's quite an interesting point.Because it can't be the same.

No, recruitment has changed beyond all recognition from when I first came into recruitment in the 80s. We didn't have computers. We didn't. I remember getting our first fax machine at Blue Arrow in 1987.

I was marveling at it.

Wow. This thing, I mean, this machine, this thing was incredible.

That's what dinosaurs go in the toilet.

Yeah. I actually had my team have to put up. My team have to put up with me because I am, I am a living dinosaur.I only got rid of the fax machine two years ago and the Franken machine last year. The hospitality.Recruitment has changed beyond all recognition and certainly technology, it's moving at speed and I think it's changed more in the last five years than it did in my first 30 odd years in recruitment. You used to go out and put adverts out in the press. The Evening Standard on a Tuesday and Thursday, the caterer on a Thursday.Then we moved on to digital advertising, then the job boards, everything that came through and now the databases and now we're moving into the AI phase. And the technology now is incredible. It's more advanced than I am. Way, way more advanced than I am. And honestly, I do struggle to cope with it.If my team, if and when my team listens to this podcast, they'll Be laughing because, you know, they've adapted more to technology than I have. But the hospitality market is changing and it will continue to change because of technology. But hospitality recruitment is changing even faster.If I go back even 10, 15 years, Collins, King, a lot of the roles we handled, the junior chef roles, we'd be facing four or five chefs into a restaurant, the Quaglinos of this world, those days are gone. There will always be a need for niche recruitment agencies and the experience those agencies can bring.At the top level, clients will pay a fee for that level. However, you now have the rise of LinkedIn, you now have the rise and that is changing at the bottom level.But I do still think that the specialist, niche, permanent recruitment market will survive and thrive.

Why? Because, like, I'm just going to. I'm just going to push back a little. Right. LinkedIn, you've mentioned it. I think it's such an amazing tool.You can, like, never before have we been able to speak to someone on the other side of the globe, be like, oh, I like your career. I'm not only aware of it, but.

I can actually, If I pay 40.

Quid a month, I can message anyone. Instagram isn't like that. Facebook, there's no other channel that actually gives you that kind of capability.I'm sure there's a good reason why, but from where I'm sitting and I've worked in recruitment, it seems like people can make their own connections, right?

They can. And as agencies, we do. It's all about the specialist.Hospitality recruitment market now is all about networks and what value you can give to a client, what value you bring. The agencies now need to be an extension of the client's business. They need to offer them something they can, cannot get.And a lot of that is compact. And I've always been networker, I don't think I'm a salesperson. Recruitment is a sales industry, but hospitality, not so much.It is about networking, is it about relationships? It is about building. Because in hospitality, people move jobs more often than in any other industry. As a chef, you've got to be moving.As a junior chef, you've got to be moving jobs every couple of years and just do. Even as a senior chef, four or five years in one place, you've got to move on.So it's relationships you build over time with those people that will define you.

That's a good point, actually. When you're recruiting, when you're in a recruitment range, before that person's leaving, you know where the vacancies are going to be.You know what companies are struggling to retain. LinkedIn won't give you that because you'll find out after somebody's left that they've left.It's too late when they're in the new job if you're trying to recruit that person. So there isn't that. There is that human element that. I love LinkedIn, you know that I'm a big fan of it. But there is this. You can never.It can't take away that human element because without that human element LinkedIn doesn't work.

I agree entirely. As I say, LinkedIn is a tool but it doesn't take that human interaction and the knowledge you might have of that person. It's the same LinkedIn.You'll have the person. They can see what they've done. Do they set the business culturally as well? You don't get that from LinkedIn.Cultural fit in hospitality is as important as skills fit. You don't get that from a job board. You don't get that is about knowledge. But it is down to the agents.And the agents that will survive going forward are those that will network. They want to be out there, they want to get to know people. That that's where hospitality recruitment is on the permanent side is going to.

A prime example is what you don't get with AI or LinkedIn is when I was at the top of my game when ran my own recruitment company, that person would walk in and you would know where the A would get. Pretty much 99 not really allowed to say that these days. But 99 of the time you'd know and be right about it.The algorithm never gets the nuances of that person. Whereas in recruitment you do if you're good and you know your clients.

It's really important.

Anyway, the point is that is what makes it special. It's a relationship. And LinkedIn.

Yeah, we use LinkedIn.

We use LinkedIn all the time and we have obviously had successes off it. But on those difficult roles. Done a research recently for a role LinkedIn had nobody and the agencies were unable to get me somebody really.And it's only got one or two.

That we've got for the specific role.

That AI and technology is just not going to give. And it is the experts. That's where the experts come in their own in my opinion. That's when. That's why they're worth the money.

And I think as agents you've got to have your ear to the ground. You've got to be out there networking. I am a Little bit. I'm an extreme networker. I'm also still involved in the industry. I'm leaving.When I leave this podcast, I'm actually going to work on an event tonight. It's a dinner in London for, I think about 1600 people, but I've still got that passion. So I. The culinary side, I'm still close to the chefs.I know that. I follow them and they can see I'm one of them as well. I genuinely love what I do.

Still got the scars on your pa. Your fingers?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Joe. I do have one question for you, Gary. Where was our invite.

Tonight? Tonight, I'm on the. I'll be on a fast. I'll be running. I'll be running a section, working with the team. No worries. Going to be hard.You thought it was hot in here. It'd be a lot hot.

We're giving you a pass, though, Mari. Gary, you have been great. Thank you so much for coming on board. Thank you for being a great guest and sharing your story.And long may Collins and team continue with the success. And I hear you going great and your future is looking bright.

So thank you very much. Pleasure.

Can I ask one more question?

Yeah, yeah.

Gary, you currently run a hospitality recruitment company. Tim, you used to run a hospitality recruitment company.

I have never done that. What do you reckon is that?

You both said culture fit is a big thing and AI is not going to replace that. It's probably your competitive edge. Right.

What are the.

What are the, like, the big telltale signs that someone's going to be a good culture fit?

Is that in terms of candidate or.

In terms of person working in the A. Oh, no, I'm thinking candidate.

Okay.

So can I just.

Yeah. I think we've got to be careful.

With the word culture for a start. And the reason for that is because it could be unbiased conscious that you've got unconscious bias.Rather, it could be that you've got unconscious bias. So we've got to be very careful when we're thinking about that. And that's why I made a little an aside saying where. I can't really say that anymore.But I think if you do understand people that you're working with, how they roll, how the team fits together, the dynamics, the kind of personalities that are there.We could use that as culture as a loose term, because when I used to interview people, I used to think, actually, skill set that have gone skill set and the personality that's coming across here, there's going to be a clash just based. If you go delve enough, you can find these what you call red flags or whatever. And that's what I mean when I say culture.It's like, who are the personalities within the work that they do?

You're spot on. You're spot. That's exactly what I was talking about. As a recruiter, you've got to not just know your applicant, you've got to know your client.What makes them tick, what makes them successful? Look at the people they've got working. How does it all fit together? It's really important. Really important.

Love it. Love it.

Thank you very much.

Talking hospitality, the voices, you know.